Slave Mentality

[Vangelovski]

And yes...I equate Lockean principles and ideas with slavery of the Earth.

Now you're flip-flopping again! Well, its good that you've clearly stated it at least. Care to provide your reasoning as to how/why you came to this conclusion? Everyone watch this space - this will be a fantastic demonstration of Victor's slave mentality and how he eventually came to regard Egej as a "legitimate" Greek entity.

[Vangelovski]

Again, another lesson on comprehension AND logic problems...and I guess English language problems:

If, as you say, to manifest something means to implement something, then when I say "America's manifestation" we will agree that I mean "America's implementation." Now when people implement things they can do so wholly, partly, correctly, or incorrectly. If you don't agree with this, then you're lost.

So when I say America's manifestation, I'm mean America's way of displaying Lockean principles. And of course, those who have surpassed elementary school in the English language understand that things are to be read in context...and when read in context, manifest entails an element of implementation that goes beyond the surface, which includes utilization.

I will try to write more simply for you because you're having trouble with context.

Victor, you still have the same fundamental problem and you yourself admit it without knowing:

So when I say America's manifestation, I'm mean America's way of displaying Lockean principles.

You're still claiming its a "Lockean" principle. This is just another case of you making an idiotic claim and then trying to pretend that you did not. What is worse, you seemingly have done this in order to de-legitimise natural rights and responsibilities, which until yesterday, you claimed were one of your "principles"!

I fear that you suffer from one of the most poisonous types of the slave mentality, which you attempt to have the rest of us accept. The clear demonstration of this was yesterday when you spilt the beans on your view that Egej is a "legitimate" Greek entity and the various idiotic (and contradictory) claims you made to back it up, only to refuse to provide sources (other than Risto Stefov).

[vicsinad]

And yes...I equate Lockean principles and ideas with slavery of the Earth.

[vicsinad]

Victor,

To 'manifest' something basically means to implement it. By saying that America 'manifested' Lockes principles you are saying they implemented what Locke advocated and hence the original idea lies with him. I can't believe that I have to give you basic English lessons while having you accuse me of comprehension problems. You don't even know what you are trying to say!

Again, another lesson on comprehension AND logic problems...and I guess English language problems:

If, as you say, to manifest something means to implement something, then when I say "America's manifestation" we will agree that I mean "America's implementation." Now when people implement things they can do so wholly, partly, correctly, or incorrectly. If you don't agree with this, then you're lost.

So when I say America's manifestation, I'm mean America's way of displaying Lockean principles. And of course, those who have surpassed elementary school in the English language understand that things are to be read in context...and when read in context, manifest entails an element of implementation that goes beyond the surface, which includes utilization.

I will try to write more simply for you because you're having trouble with context.

[Vangelovski]

Victor,

To 'manifest' something basically means to implement it. By saying that America 'manifested' Lockes principles you are saying they implemented what Locke advocated and hence the original idea lies with him. I can't believe that I have to give you basic English lessons while having you accuse me of comprehension problems. You don't even know what you are trying to say!

[vicsinad]

Victor,

I will give you the same warning as I did others with comprehension problems. Keep it on topic or it will be moved.

All in all, spoken like a true SDSM man who can't help but contradict himself and act like a hypocrite no matter what the situation. I am interested to know, though, how exactly you came by the idea that Locke promoted slavery? Was it a result of your property law 101 lecturer?

It's easy to say something's off topic when on no less that three occasions in your original posting you go long-winded about some topic or another and then claim it's irrelevant all for the sake of being able to continue discussing the issues that you think are relevant to slave mentality and ignore the ones that others think are relevant. Talk about hypocrisy.

Did I say Locke promoted slavery? I said America's manifestation of Lockean principles and ideas. Talk about comprehension problems.

Actually, they don't have lecturers in law school (or at least my institution, i don't know about the law schools you're familiar with). They have professors. But that's besides the point -- it doesn't matter who the idea came from, it matters that the idea is out there. And when you try exceedingly hard to attempt to discredit ideas by associating them with SDSM or basic property law classes (as differentiated from one that's at level 301, I would assume?), you succeed at only making a fool of yourself.

[Vangelovski]

Victor,

I will give you the same warning as I did others with comprehension problems. Keep it on topic or it will be moved.

All in all, spoken like a true SDSM man who can't help but contradict himself and act like a hypocrite no matter what the situation. I am interested to know, though, how exactly you came by the idea that Locke promoted slavery? Was it a result of your property law 101 lecturer?

[vicsinad]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer82.html

Vangelovski might as well be added to this, also:

One of the first things I learned from Property Law class is that America's manifestation of Locke's principles on property rights unleashed one of the greatest continuing injustices to this Earth. Further, this philosophy instilled in Americans, and people globally, that the individual is the master of property, and that property is whatever he can control, be it another human, animal, plant, or natural resource. The slave mentality has only been advanced by these Lockean/American ideas that we are the masters of others. And when you have a system (this current system we live in) in which supports and props up masters, you cannot lay all, or the majority of, the blame on the "slave". And yes -- this influential corporate structure of America economic and political life enslaves many people...just not nearly as many "at home" than in other countries. We have the Obama administration actively against raising the minimum wage in Haiti because US corporations would lose money by doing so. We have US policy holding African nations hostage in a water shortage and quality crisis because Coca-Cola has a profit to make through their Dasani brand. Further, you have American policy influenced by the IMF that is holding down any sorts of African development because of financial investments. Then you have American corporations holding African nations in continual food crises, as they sell their over-produced food to Africans at lower prices than local African farmers can afford to price, wiping out the food production capabilities of entire communities, rendering the people dependent on the USA for "progressive" policies that will feed their people.

Posting as if the arrival of Christians to America somehow liberated peoples here and around the world with their understanding and "advancement" of natural and inalienable rights. When the Constitution was written, and in the early days of the United States of America, only white male, property owners of a certain age and certain religion could vote (no more than 15 percent of the nation). What was that about these early Americans being "the first to reject the notion that sovereignty lies with a hereditary monarch and establish[ing] the first democratic and republican system in which sovereignty laid with the body of citizens"? Property owners passed on their property to their descendants...from 1600s until the writing of the constitution. This "hereditary" monarchy was just involved a few more people. White, Christian Americans cared first and foremost about economic opportunities...and most of them only their own economic opportunities. Further, any hint of legitimate democracy that MAY have once existed within the federal American structure is long gone, and the local levels (states and towns) are struggling to maintain any sort of actual democratic governance.

[Risto the Great]

It was moved here:

http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=124700

[FriendofMacedonia]

Why was my post deleted?

[Vangelovski]

Most discussion on this Forum is self absorbing and idolistic some broad members need to get-out and meet people more often and more importantly get on a plane and spend time in Macedonia

What do you have to say to those of us who have spent over a decade researching the issues they are posting about and years (cumulatively) on the ground? Have you done that? Maybe you should and then come back with something sensible to say.

[Risto the Great]

You make way too many assumptions Zarni.

[Zarni]

Most discussion on this Forum is self absorbing and idolistic some broad members need to get-out and meet people more often and more importantly get on a plane and spend time in Macedonia

[Brian]

Brian, if you don't think that any of these regimes oppressed their own people, then you have serious psychological issues. Further, providing services for free, such as the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany did, does not mean that people are not oppressed.

The motivations for war in these countries are not a topic of debate in this thread. The slave mentality is.

Even though I tried to explain my views earlier in this thread I thought I would draw your attention to a movie "Terror Storm" in "Brian's Corner"
( http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...t=6094&page=45 )

which goes into some detail about oppression and evil states.

At about the middle of the movie one person tries to explain what was morally wrong with attacking Saddam and Gaddafi, a question you have repeatedly ask me. I tried to answer it but it seems unsuccessfully. Seeing you're into religion maybe this guy in the movie can explain it to you in a language you are more familiar with - something to do with 4 of the 10 Commandments.

Seeing you were so caring to lookout for me that I wasn't being probed (re "Brian's Corner Post440 ) I though I would alert you to the moral question above and also introduce another type of 'Slave Mentality' that of 'Idol worship' which can mentally trap one into only seeing the good in a person/organisation/company/country and blind one to the 'ocean of evil' their 'Idol' is and has done. It might be an eye-opener for you. I quite liked the bit about the "Gulf of Tonkin Incident" (1964 Vietnam) and especially the battleship "Liberty" (liberty (both liberty and the ship) being attacked by her own government, ironic, isn't it?) being attacked attacked in 1967 while the then President ordered ships who could assist after hearing the distressed 'help' calls to stand down from assisting.

Is sophisticated tyranny (false flags) really better then blunt tyranny? And is 'Idol Worship' any less of a Slave Mentality than what you have described above (if it is a 'slave mentality' at all).

[George S.]

There is the generation gap they don't understand the older generation.