The Croatian origin of the European 'cravat' or 'necktie'

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13675

    The Croatian origin of the European 'cravat' or 'necktie'


    The cravat originated in the 1630s; like most men's fashions between the 17th century and World War I, it was of military origin. In the reign of Louis XIII of France, Croatian mercenaries[4] were enlisted into a regiment supporting the King and Cardinal Richelieu against the Duc de Guise and the Queen Mother, Marie de Medici. The traditional Croat military kit aroused Parisian curiosity about the unusual, picturesque scarves distinctively knotted at the Croats' necks; the cloths that were used, ranged from the coarse cloths of enlisted soldiers, to the fine linens and silks of the officers. The sartorial word "cravat" derives from the French "cravate," a corrupt French pronunciation of "Croat" — in Croatian, "Hr̀vāt".

    Considering the interdependence of many European regions (particularly the French) with the Venetian Republic, which occupied most of Croatia's coast, and the word's uncertain philologic origin, the new male neckdress was known as a cravate. The French readily switched from old-fashioned starched linen ruffs to the new loose linen and muslin cravates; the military styles often had broad, laced edges, while a gentleman's cravat could be of fine lace. As an extreme example of the style, the sculptor Grinling Gibbons carved a realistic cravat in white limewood which is now on display at Chatsworth House.

    On returning to England from exile in 1660, Charles II imported with him the latest new word in fashion: "A cravatte is another kind of adornment for the neck being nothing else but a long towel put about the Collar, and so tyed before with a Bow Knott; this is the original of all such Wearings; but now by the Art and Inventions of the seamsters, there is so many new ways of making them, that it would be a task to name, much more to describe them". (Randle Holme, Academy of Armory and Blazon, 1688.)

    During the wars of Louis XIV of 1689–1697, except for court, the flowing cravat was replaced with the more current and equally military "Steinkirk", named after the Battle of Steenkerque in 1692. The Steinkirk was a long, narrow, plain or lightly trimmed neckcloth worn with military dress, wrapped once about the neck in a loose knot, with the lace of fringed ends twisted together and tucked out of the way into a button-hole, either of the coat or the waistcoat. The steinkirk was popular with men and women until the 1720s.

    The maccaronis reintroduced the flowing cravat in the 1770s, and the manner of a man's knotting became indicative of his taste and style, to the extent that after the Battle of Waterloo (1815) the cravat, itself, was referred to as a "tie".
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
  • ProMKD
    Member
    • Oct 2011
    • 367

    #2
    Interesting! I never liked using the word 'cravata'. Doesn't sound very Macedonian
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    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13675

      #3
      I don't use it either, for me it is only 'vrska'.
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

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      • Daskalot
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 4345

        #4
        I thougt it had its origin from Kravari in Macedonia, the govedari there used the Kravata to resemble the tail of the Kravi to chase flies with it.

        KRAVa+opashkaTA=KRAVATA

        Macedonian Truth Organisation

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        • ProMKD
          Member
          • Oct 2011
          • 367

          #5
          Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
          I don't use it either, for me it is only 'vrska'.
          Me too SoM, vratovrska I think is the proper Macedonian way.

          I am very against many words that are just adopted from other languages. For example, it's common to say "specijalno" instead of "posebno" and that sort of thing. It's destroying our language.
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          • EgejskaMakedonia
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2010
            • 1665

            #6
            Lol, doesn't cravat or kravat mean cow, as an extension of krava?

            EDIT: Or is that when referring to it as kravata? :S

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            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15660

              #7
              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
              I don't use it either, for me it is only 'vrska'.
              That is because you are a peasant.
              Us high-brows in Dolno Kotori would say "Kravata"
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

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              • makedonche
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2008
                • 3242

                #8
                If I can have all your attentions please.....
                the correct term for a tie is "Grvata" with a G not a K.......coming from the Macedonian village that most resembles Macedonian...Dolno Kotori....we had to get away from Gorno Kotori because they started pronouncing words incorrectly due to the Bitolcani influence!
                On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

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                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15660

                  #9
                  Perhaps you said it slightly differently with that North Eastern Dolno Kotorian Dialect Makedonche.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

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                  • Dejan
                    Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 592

                    #10
                    I know it as gravata also
                    You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

                    A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

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                    • makedonche
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 3242

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                      Perhaps you said it slightly differently with that North Eastern Dolno Kotorian Dialect Makedonche.
                      RTG
                      They have obviously diluted your Macedonian as well, see Dejan's post above!
                      Next time just ask me first, that will save me having to correct you!
                      On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

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                      • Risto the Great
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 15660

                        #12
                        Alright ... I will admit it is a very soft K.
                        You are right Makedonche, I should rely on your old man wisdom much more.
                        Being so young and carefree, I miss some of these these particulars sometimes.
                        Risto the Great
                        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

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                        • Phoenix
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 4671

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Dejan View Post
                          I know it as gravata also
                          Gravata or vratovrska for me...

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                          • Bill77
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 4545

                            #14
                            I have known it as "Gravata". If it was up to me, i would call it "Beselka" as that what it feels like when i wear one. I absolutely hate wearing them.

                            Just to go a little off topic.......again

                            Does anyone know the proper Macedonian word for "Pen" or "Pencil"
                            Last edited by Bill77; 11-22-2011, 05:48 AM.
                            http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

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                            • EgejskaMakedonia
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2010
                              • 1665

                              #15
                              We say molif for pencil/pen, I think in the Vardar region they tend to say moliv or something entirely different.

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