Ivan Trickovski

[Vangelovski]

so whilst he is a good player he is not given the full respect that is his identity.These people have no brains they can't distinguish a country from a capital city.

It appears that its the players themselves who have no brains - I think the GREEK team management knows exactly what its doing.

[dimi28495]

Dimi, you're talking about 'closet pride', which is useless. Where is his self-respect? Perhaps the identity of his ancestors doesn't mean as much to him as the euro dollar. Gruevski accepts "FYROM" in the international arena also, perhaps he is taking his lead.

Well I guess you are correct but I doubt the website will even listen to him if he asked them to change his nationality to Macedonian which is why I find it a bit strange to see so many Macedonians in cyprus.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Well I guess you are correct but I doubt the website will even listen to him if he asked them to change his nationality to Macedonian which is why I find it a bit strange to see so many Macedonians in cyprus.

I agree, the club and website will not change their racist stance against Macedonians, even if they're playing for them. But of course they would already be aware of that before they signed up. For these players their Macedonian identity takes second place, even though there are other countries where they could have played. Quite simply it is pathetic.

[lavce pelagonski]

Pandev + ventilator = Macedonians cheering for him.
How does that work out.

[United MKD]

I agree, the club and website will not change their racist stance against Macedonians, even if they're playing for them. But of course they would already be aware of that before they signed up. For these players their Macedonian identity takes second place, even though there are other countries where they could have played. Quite simply it is pathetic.

True but not that simple, look at Trickovski for example first time he went abroad was to Red Star, after a season they thought he wasn't good enough and he was back in Macedonia. His second chance abroad came from Cyprus, ofcourse he is going to take the offer, he wouldn't be the player he is now if he had stayed in Macedonia.

[lavce pelagonski]

Sacrifice your identity for money. Well done.

[Soldier of Macedon]

True but not that simple, look at Trickovski for example first time he went abroad was to Red Star, after a season they thought he wasn't good enough and he was back in Macedonia. His second chance abroad came from Cyprus, ofcourse he is going to take the offer, he wouldn't be the player he is now if he had stayed in Macedonia.

He is the player he is because of his talent, not because he plays in Cyprus. And actually, it really is this simple -> Would you sacrifice your identity and self-respect to further your career? Would you work for a company that regarded you as a "Skopian" in an official capacity? I wouldn't. I am not sure why Macedonians who take up a career in sport are supposed to be exempt from the same criticism that would apply to myself or any other Macedonian.

[George S.]

i think all they care for is the mighty dollar given half a chance they'd sell their identity too
as they couldn't care less.

[United MKD]

He is the player he is because of his talent, not because he plays in Cyprus. And actually, it really is this simple -> Would you sacrifice your identity and self-respect to further your career? Would you work for a company that regarded you as a "Skopian" in an official capacity? I wouldn't. I am not sure why Macedonians who take up a career in sport are supposed to be exempt from the same criticism that would apply to myself or any other Macedonian.

Talent yes, but development is another issue, which he would not do playing in Macedonia, where at best it is a semi-pro league, getting drunk, partying etc hardly a professional league. Look at Switzerland, they have 8 ethnic Albanians in their team, 4 are from Macedonia and 4 from Kosovo, do you think they would develop to be the players they are if they stayed in Macedonia and Kosovo? Doubt it. In fooball you have a minimum time frame to do something with your career. When you have one offer to go abroad and that is in Cyprus offering you a million euros a season or playing in a dodgy league where payments are late, players get beaten up by thugs in Tetovo etc, it is logical which one you will chose to further your career.

I know what you're saying and I do agree with you but I just can't look at it that simply.

[George S.]

they may as well be greek the way they are treated they must be really oblivious to it.They don't want to stop & as the money rolls in they won't bother.

[Soldier of Macedon]

When you have one offer to go abroad and that is in Cyprus offering you a million euros a season or playing in a dodgy league where payments are late, players get beaten up by thugs in Tetovo etc, it is logical which one you will chose to further your career.

I know what you're saying and I do agree with you but I just can't look at it that simply.

I hear you United MKD, but if a Cypriot team is prepared to offer a million euros there would surely be other offers sooner or later (unless only Cypriot teams are scouting Macedonia for talent, which I doubt). I guess it comes down to personal choice in the end. I know what I say may appear as 'chest beating', and perhaps he sees it differently because he wants his family to live a rich life. I can understand that. But it still means that for him his integrity can be purchased for the right sum. Real integrity is hard to come by these days. And Macedonia is desperately in need of people in the 'spotlight' with real integrity. We're obviously looking in the wrong places and probably kidding ourselves thinking that integrity will win over opportunism for many of these people.

[Vangelovski]

he wouldn't be the player he is now if he had stayed in Macedonia.

Maybe not, but what happened to personal sacrifice for a greater cause than your own ambition? Do they expect they can have freedom without paying for it in some way?

[EgejskaMakedonia]

To be honest, I think a few of you are looking into this a bit too much. I understand your concerns, and I tend to agree, but I highly doubt 'selling out his identity' was his motive when seeking to further develop his sporting career.

What happened to not giving a toss what the Greeks think?

To draw parallels with what I believe is a non-existent issue to do with Trickovski, why do we all live in a country that officially recognises us as 'FYR of Macedonia?'

Money does overpower loyalty in many instances (look at EPL and sport in general), but how can we possibly assume that these Macedonian soccer players had other options or offers?

Like I said, I generally agree with what is being said, but there are other factors to consider before we start labeling. In terms of sport, accepting entry into a competition as 'FYROM' is far worse than this, where he is representing a club, not his nation.

[Vangelovski]

To be honest, I think a few of you are looking into this a bit too much. I understand your concerns, and I tend to agree, but I highly doubt 'selling out his identity' was his motive when seeking to further develop his sporting career.

What happened to not giving a toss what the Greeks think?

To draw parallels with what I believe is a non-existent issue to do with Trickovski, why do we all live in a country that officially recognises us as 'FYR of Macedonia?'

Money does overpower loyalty in many instances (look at EPL and sport in general), but how can we possibly assume that these Macedonian soccer players had other options or offers?

Like I said, I generally agree with what is being said, but there are other factors to consider before we start labeling. In terms of sport, accepting entry into a competition as 'FYROM' is far worse than this, where he is representing a club, not his nation.

EM, I don't think anyone suggested that 'selling his identity' was a motive, but it certainly was an outcome. As for those of us that live in Australia and care about Macedonian freedom and their natural rights, you should inform yourself about the personal sacrifices that have been made before you compare us with Trickovski.

[Soldier of Macedon]

To be honest, I think a few of you are looking into this a bit too much. I understand your concerns, and I tend to agree, but I highly doubt 'selling out his identity' was his motive when seeking to further develop his sporting career.

Who said selling out his identity was the motive? Nobody. The motive is money. Selling out his identity is a by-product which he finds acceptable. Would you find it acceptable? What exactly do you 'tend' to agree with?

To draw parallels with what I believe is a non-existent issue to do with Trickovski, why do we all live in a country that officially recognises us as 'FYR of Macedonia?'

What does Australia recognise your identity and language as, being a citizen of this country? Is it something other than Macedonian?

Money does overpower loyalty in many instances (look at EPL and sport in general), but how can we possibly assume that these Macedonian soccer players had other options or offers?

Would it overpower your loyalty? If not, what is the problem with asking for other Macedonians to be held to the same standard of dignity? And are you suggesting that only clubs from Cyprus are scouting in Macedonia, if so, how can you possibly assume that?