Greece to Lift Embargo Against Macedonia if It Scraps Its Flag

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    Greece to Lift Embargo Against Macedonia if It Scraps Its Flag



    Greece to Lift Embargo Against Macedonia if It Scraps Its Flag
    By CHRISTOPHER S. WREN
    Published: September 14, 1995

    Greece agreed today to take steps to lift its 19-month trade embargo against the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia, in return for concessions from Macedonia that include scrapping the country's existing national flag.

    The two neighbors have yet to settle a more intractable dispute over the name of Macedonia, which Greece contends belongs properly to its northern province. But the interim agreement, which came together after 28 months of shuttle mediation by Cyrus R. Vance, a former United States Secretary of State, defuses the longstanding threat of violence in a region already ravaged by ethnic warfare.

    The accord was signed at the United Nations this afternoon by the Greek Foreign Minister, Karolos Papoulias, and his Macedonian counterpart, Stevo Crvenkovski, after some last-minute bargaining over the details.

    It commits Macedonia to cease using "in any fashion" a 16-pointed star displayed on the red background of its national flag. Greece contends that the distinctive symbol, called the Sun or Star of Vergina, is intrinsic to its own cultural heritage.

    Macedonia further pledged that nothing in its Constitution, which promises to protect all Macedonians, will be interpreted as constituting a claim to territory beyond its borders. Greece and Bulgaria both have ethnic Macedonian minorities.

    Greece and Macedonia also agreed to establish diplomatic relations "at an early date," beginning with the prompt opening of liaison office in Athens and Skopje, and confirmed their common border as "enduring and inviolable." Greece had refused to recognize Macedonia, which declared independence after Yugoslavia disintegrated in 1991.

    Mr. Vance said the steps needed to implement the accord fully would take place over the next few weeks. The agreement takes effect 30 days from today.

    This would include lifting Greek trade sanctions, which have badly damaged Macedonia's landlocked economy. The agreement does not mention the sanctions but commits both nations to "refrain from imposing any impediment to the movement of people or goods between their territories." Mr. Vance had assured reporters last week that the sanctions would be lifted once the agreement was signed.

    Two days of tough negotiations here preceded today's signing, with relations at first so frosty that the two Foreign Ministers stayed in different hotels here while Mr. Vance shuttled between them to resolve the final differences.

    The Foreign Ministers finally met this afternoon under the auspices of Secretary General Boutros Boutros-Ghali to sign the agreement. But Mr. Papoulias and Mr. Crvenkovski did not speak to each other in front of reporters or take any questions.

    Mr. Vance declined to specify the final sticking points, saying only that "there were a lot of technical things" to resolve in so wide-ranging an agreement. There were reports that the United States engaged in arm-twisting to get Greece to settle its dispute with Macedonia.

    The negotiations over Macedonia's name are expected to resume in late October or early November. But Mr. Vance said, "The fact that they have a difference over the name is not going to affect progress" on what has already been achieved.

    Mr. Vance said the agreement today "has possibilities of having a positive effect" on the ethnic fighting elsewhere in the former Yugoslavia. About 550 American soldiers are deployed in Macedonia as part of a larger United Nations force trying to prevent hostilities from spilling over from Bosnia.
    A walk down memory lane.
    Was it worth it?

    Sixteen years later we effectively have a new embargo due to the strikes in Greece. Same rubbish, different millenium?
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
  • makedonche
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2008
    • 3242

    #2
    What a f***ing disgraceful act of capitulation!
    An even more disgraceful act of demand from a bunch of liars and thieves!
    On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

    Comment

    • Stojacanec
      Member
      • Dec 2009
      • 809

      #3
      I am honestly dumbfounded how a modern Greece can dictate the use of an ancient Macedonian symbol. Shame on the Macedonian government.

      16 years later and Greece is still behaving like a bunch of deros.

      Only now it is clear that not only do they lie but they can't run their country properly if their lives depended on it.

      1.4 million came as refugees 90 years ago and today they are dictating what another nation can and can't do.

      "what a difference a day makes"

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13670

        #4
        And 16 years after the Greek embargo was lifted - given it was so "critical" that our spineless politicians changed the flag and have since perpetuated that act of treachery - how has life in Macedonia improved as a result? Oh, that's right, not yet, first they just have to change the name (again) and give up on our identity, after which the EU will pave roads of gold from Brussells to Bitola.
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          #5
          Jeez SoM "from Brussels to Bitola" sounds like a Macedonian theme song nowadays.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • Makedonska_Kafana
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2010
            • 2642

            #6
            Why is it crucial Greek name talks end? Simple, Athens has made it clear they will leave no stone unturned until they own the name and ALL symbols outright forever.

            nikoj nema pravo da pregovara za moeto ime.mp4 - YouTube
            Last edited by Makedonska_Kafana; 10-18-2011, 09:31 AM.
            http://www.makedonskakafana.com

            Macedonia for the Macedonians

            Comment

            • Bij
              Member
              • Oct 2009
              • 905

              #7
              Legitimate question, when the embargo happened how many lives were lost? I know Macedonia lost access to medication but I've never seen a real figure.

              Comment

              • Daniel the Great
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2009
                • 1084

                #8
                We hate that our flag was forcibly changed, but we never stop to think, was the embargo a real threat to the Macedonian economy? Don't get me wrong we shouldn't of capitulated so easily, but was the embargo by Greece a more complicated issue then what we perceive it to have been.

                Comment

                • Vangelovski
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 8532

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Bij View Post
                  Legitimate question, when the embargo happened how many lives were lost? I know Macedonia lost access to medication but I've never seen a real figure.
                  Thats a first..maybe you can research it and let us know.

                  Here's another question: how many lives have been lost to liberation causes throughout history? Compare that to Macedonia since 1991.
                  If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                  The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15658

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Daniel the Great View Post
                    We hate that our flag was forcibly changed, but we never stop to think, was the embargo a real threat to the Macedonian economy? Don't get me wrong we shouldn't of capitulated so easily, but was the embargo by Greece a more complicated issue then what we perceive it to have been.
                    I do not think it was a threat.
                    It certainly went on for a long time and Macedonia was learning to use other methods to bypass the embargo.
                    Either way, even if one adhered to the agreement, the time has well passed where Macedonia could opt out. But it has instead chosen to enforce the agreement in the ICJ hearing.

                    I would guess not a single person died from the embargo. A Macedonian identity did though.
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Daniel the Great
                      ............. was the embargo a real threat to the Macedonian economy?
                      If it was, what are the measurable economic improvements made after the embargo was lifted?
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

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