Empowerment of Macedonians

[Risto the Great]

Bill, unfortunately the Macedonian people DID let it happen.
It hurts to admit this.
But they let it happen by voting for the Governments that allowed these compromises or by not voting at all. Their message to their government was one of acceptance. This is nothing to be proud of and there is no way to say this nicely.

[Bill77]

Bill, didn't your parents teach you personal responsibility? What's with the moddly coddling? Of course they let it happen. They need to own up to it and do something about it.

You and i know that, but you go and tell them, and see what reaction you get.

So what is the motive for sending that message to them?
Feel proud by telling them you are right? or is it more important for them to get something done for the sake of Macedonia?

I still think you should press the right buttons.

[julie]

Bill, unfortunately the Macedonian people DID let it happen.
It hurts to admit this.
But they let it happen by voting for the Governments that allowed these compromises or by not voting at all. Their message to their government was one of acceptance. This is nothing to be proud of and there is no way to say this nicely.

Yes they did let it happen. And I have had someone mention something to me about those elections being rigged. i believe that because the diaspora vote was a balls up compliments from Macedonia government.

I agree, there is no way of saying it nicely, I like the way you have said it in a confrontational, factual way.

Your successive governments sold you out by changing your name, flag and constitution. You are second class citizens in your own country. You let it happen. You can fix it but it will require sacrifices that will need to surpass the fighting spirit of our Macedonian ancestors.


The you let it happen I would not keep in that message. They know they did, and agree with Bill on that issue of guilt, and Vangelovski, something you mentioned to Bill about taking ownership of the problem and taking responsibility is correct (molly coddling is a term I would not use. Of course our parents did that with us, and am sure was same for you from your parents as a small child, and the way you are with yours.)

This statemtent from RTG I like, something that can be used
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[Risto the Great]

The "you let it happen" is the trigger for them to take ownership of their problem. Something they have avoided for 20 years. Apathy has got Macedonia where it is today.

[Vangelovski]

You and i know that, but you go and tell them, and see what reaction you get.

So what is the motive for sending that message to them?
Tell them you are right? or get something done for the sake of Macedonia?

I still think you should press the right buttons.

I've spent a lot of time in Macedonia and have had many conversations with the intellectually enslaved. I find that until I upset them and provoke them to think, none have come to the realisation of what's going on. It brings results (most of the time) and its best used with those that have perseverance, endurance and nice thick skin, which is what the cause needs.

[julie]

I've spent a lot of time in Macedonia and have had many conversations with the intellectually enslaved. I find that until I upset them and provoke them to think, none have come to the realisation of what's going on. It brings results (most of the time) and its best used with those that have perseverance, endurance and nice thick skin, which is what the cause needs.

I like that - we need perseverance, endurance and thick skin

Vangelovski, we need to target all Macedonians, and knowing many as well, we need to EMPOWER them, and upsetting and provoking them will not get the outcome we need to achieve, because it has not worked until now, we need to change our approach

To get action, for people to start protesting, this is what we must have happen, sooner rather than later

[julie]

our successive governments sold you out by changing your name, flag and constitution. Macedonians, you are second class citizens in your own country. . You can fix it but it will require sacrifices that will need to surpass the fighting spirit of our Macedonian ancestors,we need perseverance, endurance and thick skin

There is the start of the message, using RTG and Vangelovski words.
EMPOWERMENT
so we need a process, how to get like minded individuals in Macedonia to get that message across, we need that revolution NOW.

[Bill77]

I've spent a lot of time in Macedonia and have had many conversations with the intellectually enslaved. I find that until I upset them and provoke them to think, none have come to the realisation of what's going on. It brings results (most of the time) and its best used with those that have perseverance, endurance and nice thick skin, which is what the cause needs.

If true, i can't argue with that. If that works and its the best form of attack, then do it.

I must be the unlucky one that gets the thin skinned ones on FB or where ever i meet them in person. Then its me the one who should be careful which buttons to push. As long as we achieve the same outcome, then its all good.

[Bill77]

I like that - we need perseverance, endurance and thick skin

Vangelovski, we need to target all Macedonians, and knowing many as well, we need to EMPOWER them, and upsetting and provoking them will not get the outcome we need to achieve, because it has not worked until now, we need to change our approach

It makes things harder (picking and choosing the thick or thin skinned) but it must be done. We do have both types, and must know how to adjust our approach.

[Mikail]

our successive governments sold you out by changing your name, flag and constitution. Macedonians, you are second class citizens in your own country. . You can fix it but it will require sacrifices that will need to surpass the fighting spirit of our Macedonian ancestors,we need perseverance, endurance and thick skin

There is the start of the message, using RTG and Vangelovski words.
EMPOWERMENT
so we need a process, how to get like minded individuals in Macedonia to get that message across, we need that revolution NOW.

Very good

[julie]

It makes things harder (picking and choosing the thick or thin skinned) but it must be done. We do have both types, and must know how to adjust our approach.

Its about all Macedonians developing thick skin bro to fight for the cause

[julie]

Julie,

Good topic! I'm of the view (though I could be wrong) that empowerment (and in this context I'm referring to political empowerment) is something that only individuals can do for themselves. A realisation leading to a changed mindset and a determination, commitment to do things differently. But before individuals do this I think they need to want to do it. I think they need to realise that it is a better option than what they currently have - political disenfranchisement and passive acceptance of oppression. I think the best way to help individuals come to a realisation and a changed mindset is to show them clearly what is wrong with how they do things now and how it can be done better.

I am in total agreeance with what I have bolded here from Vangelovski which is something that we have done well here already, showing people what is wrong with things, and HOW IT CAN BE DONE is what am striving for , to work out a strategy, plan, solution to effect change through basically, civil disobedience

[United MKD]

So how can we do this?

[Vangelovski]

Julie,

All this nonsense you hear from Macedonians that its not their fault, that there's nothing they can do is part of the problem. Its part of the slave mentality. It is their fault and they are the ONLY ones that can do something about it. Accepting responsibility is part of the message, a key step to the moral revolution. There cannot be one without acceptance of PERSONAL INDIVIDUAL responsibility because the moral revolution is a PERSONAL INIDIVDUAL one.

By not getting them to accept personal individual responsibility, they will never really experience a changed mindset. This moddly coddling is a watering down of the message, and unacceptable.

[Vangelovski]

If true, i can't argue with that. If that works and its the best form of attack, then do it.

I must be the unlucky one that gets the thin skinned ones on FB or where ever i meet them in person. Then its me the one who should be careful which buttons to push. As long as we achieve the same outcome, then its all good.

You do need to tailor your approach, and its almost impossible to do over the net, but in person its certainly much easier. But you cannot dilute the message - personal responsibility for a personal moral revolution. One person at a time.