Ventilator

[TrueMacedonian]

Read the Interim Accord and you might get a rough idea of what the RELEVANT definition might be and how far removed your implied definition is from it.

The Macedonian people are not named after the Macedonian land. The Macedonian land was named after the Macedonian people.

I know who named Macedonia. But I want your definition of the word indigenous. Not what the accord states.

[aleksandrov]

Can you tell me when the 16 ray symbol was used as a Macedonian symbol after antiquity?

I could, but I won't, because your line of argument only serves to detract from the fundamental political and philosophical issues in question.

If you want to discuss something more relevant, perhaps you should tell me what the concept of a flag means to you and what the purpose of having one is.

If I we were to follow your logic, it wouldn't be too hard to justify one day putting the Albanian double-headed eagle on the 'Macedonian' state flag to appease the balisti, on the grounds that Macedonian Christians used A double-headed eagle before the Albanians did, and it can be found in various forms throughout old and new Macedonian Orthodox churches.

[TrueMacedonian]

TM,

Most Macedonian "scholars" have destroyed their reputations - if they ever had any to begin with.

Until I see evidence of these finds, I won't be convinced that they exist. Even if they do, it is irrelevant, the fact that the ventilator is treason still stands.

Again I understand your hesitation. Dr. Alekovski's email was already posted. Maybe someone would be so kind as to email him and ask him to join us and post his pics so we can see what evidence he has to offer.

[Vangelovski]

If I we were to follow your logic, it wouldn't be too hard to justify one day putting the Albanian double-headed eagle on the 'Macedonian' state flag to appease the balisti, on the grounds that Macedonian Christians used A double-headed eagle before the Albanians did, and it can be found in various forms throughout old and new Macedonian Orthodox churches.

At the rate Macedonia is travelling, this will happen soon enough. This is why relativism is so dangerous.

[TrueMacedonian]

I could, but I won't, because your line of argument only serves to detract from the fundamental political and philosophical issues in question.

If you want to discuss something more relevant, perhaps you should tell me what the concept of a flag means to you and what the purpose of having one is.

If I we were to follow your logic, it wouldn't be too hard to justify one day putting the Albanian double-headed eagle on the 'Macedonian' state flag to appease the balisti, on the grounds that Macedonian Christians used A double-headed eagle before the Albanians did, and it can be found in various forms throughout old and new Macedonian Orthodox churches.

You're being a little hasty. I asked you a question and you revert one back to me. That's not answering the question. Can you tell me when the 16 ray symbol was used as a Macedonian symbol after antiquity? I'll answer your question when you answer mine first. I hope I'm not detracting too much.

[osiris]

vangelovski the passage of time has consequences we cannot predict, and i am not so sure the change of flag is that important an issue in the grand scheme of things.

in politics there is an ebb and flow between success and failure and what was once a failure can end up being a great success.

[Vangelovski]

Again I understand your hesitation. Dr. Alekovski's email was already posted. Maybe someone would be so kind as to email him and ask him to join us and post his pics so we can see what evidence he has to offer.

I'm more than happy to email him out of interest. But as I and Aleksandrov have noted, it is irrelevant whether the ventilator was invented in 1995 or 10000 BC. The fact of the matter is that it is treason.

[Vangelovski]

vangelovski the passage of time has consequences we cannot predict, and i am not so sure the change of flag is that important an issue in the grand scheme of things.

in politics there is an ebb and flow between success and failure and what was once a failure can end up being a great success.

You could say the same about the name. Or any of the other clauses in the Interim Accord. Once you move away from absolutes and start delving into relativism, you move into UMD's neighbourhood. We could just as easily start redefining the MTO cause until it looks like the UMD cause, with a whole bunch of excuses as to why it is necessary or just doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

[osiris]

true mak the symbols of pagan antiquity were not used in the christian world you dont need alexandrov to tell you that. the ancient macedonian flag was resurrected the past 30 years.

[osiris]

vangelovski in my opinion the name defines our identity and has been a constant throughout history flags coats of arms are not of the same importance.

[TrueMacedonian]

I'm more than happy to email him out of interest. But as I and Aleksandrov have noted, it is irrelevant whether the ventilator was invented in 1995 or 10000 BC. The fact of the matter is that it is treason.

I'm not going to disagree with you. You are right. The new flag was installed due to the modern "greeks" bullshit and for the predavniks that allowed it to happen. And believe me I much prefer the 16 ray over the 8 myself. But we are spitting on a symbol that does indeed, whether you like it or not, represent the Republic of Macedonia.

[Vangelovski]

true mak the symbols of pagan antiquity were not used in the christian world you dont need alexandrov to tell you that. the ancient macedonian flag was resurrected the past 30 years.

The point is it was FREELY resurrected and not imposed.

[TrueMacedonian]

true mak the symbols of pagan antiquity were not used in the christian world you dont need alexandrov to tell you that. the ancient macedonian flag was resurrected the past 30 years.

I just want to see Alexandrov's answer to that and to what his definition of indigenous is.

[Vangelovski]

vangelovski in my opinion the name defines our identity and has been a constant throughout history flags coats of arms are not of the same importance.

Why not? Both are symbols. Why give more importance to the name and not the flag? Why does one need to be freely chosen and the other not? Why is it acceptable for one to be imposed and the other not?

[Vangelovski]

I'm not going to disagree with you. You are right. The new flag was installed due to the modern "greeks" bullshit and for the predavniks that allowed it to happen. And believe me I much prefer the 16 ray over the 8 myself. But we are spitting on a symbol that does indeed, whether you like it or not, represent the Republic of Macedonia.

FYROM represents Macedonia internationally - why do you spit on that symbol and not the ventilator? What is the difference between the two symbols?