Ventilator

[lavce pelagonski]

I dont see any Macedonians do you?


Американците изненадени: Кои се “црвено-жолтите“ навивачи во Детроит?

peroantic1

Во НБА професионалната кошаркарска лига, екипата на Атланта Хокс доцна синоќа во Детроит го совлада домаќинот втор пат по ред.

Мечот во “Палас оф Оберн-Хилс“, освен победата на “јастребите“, беше одбележан и големиот број на Македонци дојдени со наши знамиња и навивачки реквизити.

Досега скоро на секој натпревар оваа сезона присуствуваат фанови кои доаѓаат да го поддржат Перо Антиќ, членот на Атланта Хокс кој за жал на последниот синоќешен меч не доби дозвола за настап од тренерот, Мајк Буденхолзер.

Но, сигурно дека тука нема да запре присуството на самите трибини на македонските навивачи и популарната “Фаланга“..

Атланта Хокс засега е трет севкупно на Истокот со учинок од осум победи и пет порази, зад бранителот на трофејот Мајами Хит (9-3) и првопласираната екипа на Индијана Пејсерс (11-1).

Перо Антиќ засега има постигнато 37 коша оваа сезона, најмногу против Мајами Хит (12), досега со учинок од 5.3 поени, 1.0 асистенција, 1.4 украдена топка и 2.9 скокови по натпревар.

http://tempomk.mk/?p=3382

[Risto the Great]

I don't get it. How can the imposed flag inspire any useful patriotism? Imagine picking some colors and symbols to represent your nation and binding under that symbol to stand your ground, no matter what challenges you must endure. The ventilator doesn't do it in any form.

[Vangelovski]

I don't get it. How can the imposed flag inspire any useful patriotism? Imagine picking some colors and symbols to represent your nation and binding under that symbol to stand your ground, no matter what challenges you must endure. The ventilator doesn't do it in any form.

Freedom to choose - key point

[Risto the Great]

You can have anything you want, except for the one you chose. And make sure it doesn't upset the Greeks. Hey presto, the ventilator.

[George S.]

self determination,self identification, & non interference from the likes of the greeks.Do people really believe that the greeks really have issues like the name & or flag.THe answer is a resounding no.All Greece wants is a monopoly over these so called issues.Hence the slogan that everything is greek.The propaganda keeps the bs pumping on.There aren't really any issues over anything.The name of a province ,the name is a non issue as far as the Macedonians are concerned.THe greeks are lying.The greeks stole our flag now they want the name.Does that sound familiar?When will people learn that you do not capitulate on flags or names of a country.Greece can have their province we can have our country.

[Stojacanec]

The greeks have managed to drive the use of the 16 ray sun underground for all macedonians to enjoy. All hail the greeks!!

Like taking candy from a baby really.

[Phoenix]

The greeks have managed to drive the use of the 16 ray sun underground for all macedonians to enjoy. All hail the greeks!!

Like taking candy from a baby really.

I would like to see a greater coordinated effort by the diaspora to make the Macedonian Sonce the symbol of the Macedonian people worldwide.
I'm happy to see many diaspora organizations using it already but saddened to see ventilatorism taking root.

[Gocka]

I would like to see a greater coordinated effort by the diaspora to make the Macedonian Sonce the symbol of the Macedonian people worldwide.
I'm happy to see many diaspora organizations using it already but saddened to see ventilatorism taking root.

That is the intention behind my "Operation Sonce" I think its integral to the survival of our identity, we need at least 1 unifying factor, and I think the only hope we have of finding a unifying factor is in the Sonce.

Right now we have nothing, we are divided in a 101 ways, we cant seem to agree or even agree to disagree on anything, its really not helping our cause at all.

[Niko777]

SHAME

[VMRO]

SHAME

Disgusting, da mu e stram.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af80/inidgen2010/LAV06.jpg[/IMG]
The other Lions (that talked much but showed little action).

Any information and/or backstory on these guys?

[Karposh]

I’m glad that you resurfaced this thread LoM. Reading through many of the old posts, I was impressed by how much feeling and passion this topic has stirred up over the years amongst forum members past and present. I remember when this debate was going on during the mid-90’s when the Macedonian government caved in and capitulated to all of Greece’s demands in exchange for an end to the economic embargo. Nothing hurt me more at the time than the removal of the 16 ray ancient Macedonian sun symbol from the national flag of Macedonia and, tragically, realizing what the fallout of such a move meant for the Macedonian identity in the eyes of the world. At the time, this voluntary disassociation with the ancient Macedonian past felt like a betrayal of the highest order in my eyes. A state-sponsored cultural suicide is the best way I can describe it.

But if we are going to be honest about this issue, I would say that the betrayal was felt more so by the Macedonian diaspora than by the newly-woken, Yugo-zombies of the republic. I know of one Aussie Macedonian back then that happened to be on holidays in Ohrid who was debating this issue with some locals and had his face punched in for his troubles. “People are worried about what they’re going to put down on their dinner tables or whether they are going to eat at all and you’re arguing with me about a fucking rag?”…”I wipe my arse with your precious rag!” These were the types of comments he received from the Ohrid locals before they bashed him. And I’m sure it wasn’t just the Ohrid locals who held these views.

Despite this, the flag with the Kutlesh sunburst symbol has been accepted by even the most nonchalant of Macedonians from around the world because of what it signifies. I have seen Greeks post limitless examples of the same in ancient Greek art, in an effort to claim that it wasn’t used as a statement by ancient Macedonians of their national pride but simply as a token Greek symbol that had no real national significance. Bullshit! The ancient Greeks may well have used this symbol to decorate their vases with but for the ancient Macedonians it held a special place of important national significance. They adopted it as a mark of Macedonian pride and power. That is why this will always be the true Macedonian flag for most Macedonians as it is the one Alexander’s soldiers carried on their shields and embellished their tombs with. To the non-Macedonian peoples of the ancient world, the 16, 12 or 8 ray Macedonian sun motif would’ve been a symbol of fear, terror and dread. To the Macedonians it was a symbol of Macedonian power and pride and they were proud to display it on their coins, their armour, their art and anywhere where a statement needed to be made that “The Macedonians were here!”

Today, the one unifying symbol that transcends borders and strikes a chord with Macedonians from all orientations and persuasions (from die-hard patriots to the seemingly apathetic) is the16 ray ancient Macedonian sun symbol which encapsulates all the might, power and glory of the invincible ancient Macedonians.

One of the comments that I came across which I want to single out and discuss, especially since there are many Macedonians who hold this exact view (including myself at one stage), is the misplaced significance given to the rosette motif in the center of the 16 ray sun symbol of the “true” Macedonian flag. There is nothing significant about this rosette. It is purely decorative in nature and its importance, in the eyes of many Macedonians, stems from the fact that it is featured on the lid of a golden Macedonian funerary casket (that may or may not have been that of Alexander’s father king Phillip II).

The fact of the matter is that the blue rosette in the center of the 16 ray sun symbol from Kutlesh was one of many other decorative features that adorned the casket in question, which also included the instantly recognizable fleur-de-lis motif (often associated with French heraldry). It was a purely decorative feature that was meant to signify that the bones in the intricately decorated golden casket from Tomb I belonged to someone of greater significance than those that lay in Tomb II, in the more modestly decorated golden casket with the 12 ray golden sun adorning the lid instead of the 16 ray sun depicted on Philip’s casket.

It is the sunburst symbol that is significant as the national symbol of the ancient Macedonians and not the incidental decorative motifs from the Kutlesh burial site. As a matter of fact, the very same rosette features strongly in many other ancient cultures, especially in ancient Persian art so it’s time to let go of this little blue flower that clashes so much with Macedonia’s traditional colours of red and gold. There is something inherently wrong seeing the blue colour on the Macedonian flag. It doesn’t work and it’s an eye sore.

[DraganOfStip]

I've said this before,and I'll say it again: if a setback HAD to be made,if the Kutlesh star HAD to be replaced with a new flag, then it had to be the lion instead of the ventilator.
After the 16-ray star,the Macedonian lion is the oldest symbol of historical Macedonia and the only possible replacement.
However,Branko & co. didn't accept this because it was at the same time a party symbol of DPMNE and eventually had their way.
That's politics for you, always putting party interests before the country's.
Even today.

[Risto the Great]

The lion was always the symbol I understood and embraced as being our unique identifier. But that really is irrelevant. It was the process of capitulation that would have forced me to reject the lion as something to replace the flag of free Macedonians. The problem was the process, not the symbols.

[vicsinad]

The problem was the process, not the symbols.

Precisely.