Ventilator

[EgejskaMakedonia]

EM, I would suggest you actually start the alphabet for the first time, rather than preaching to those who have already gone through it. Only then will you be in a position to advise on successful "approaches".

Don't worry, I started the Alphabet back in pre-school...
I'm not telling you to adopt anything, it isn't up to me what choice you make. The difference is as you point out, I'm advising members of the MTO, however on the other hand, you are forcing an 'approach' onto them.

[Risto the Great]

They are only leaders if we make them leaders.

Then it would be safe to assume you blame Macedonians for the leaders it has had so far. It seems we cannot say anything bad about Macedonia because it would offend someone.

Here it is:

Macedonia is the preferential homeland of ethnic Albanians. Macedonians allowed this to happen. Macedonians accept this by continuing to vote for people that form coalitions with ethnic Albanians. Ethnic Albanians have the final say on any acts which relate to to Macedonia's sovereignty. Macedonians seem to have embraced the ventilator, the ultimate symbol of capitulation for Macedonia.

See if you can roll that turd in glitter in order to let it shine.

I hold Macedonians responsible for this. Not Greeks, Not the USA or EU ... Macedonians. Not all of them though.

Is it so wrong to single out anti-Macedonians or acts which are not in the interest of Macedonia? My suggestion to those that are offended by this is for them to harden up a little. That the ones who are presently dismantling Macedonia could not care less about their or my feelings.

[Risto the Great]

I'm not telling you to adopt anything, it isn't up to me what choice you make.

Gruevski says the exact same thing.
He will put it to a vote instead.

[Risto the Great]

Don't worry blackcactus, I am more resilient than that. I agree with your general point and it's proof that this 'argument' has become almost ridiculous. I'm not prepared to 'compromise' my views because a few 'big boys' tell (or in their terms, 'force') me to.

Seriously, are you feeling forced right now?
Will you do anything against your will because you are talking to a few veterans of mindless banter on an internet forum?

I suspect not. In which case, the theory that we can force anyone is flawed. In fact, we are trying to challenge the present mindset that has guaranteed beyond any doubt nothing will change.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Then it would be safe to assume you blame Macedonians for the leaders it has had so far. It seems we cannot say anything bad about Macedonia because it would offend someone.

Here it is:

Macedonia is the preferential homeland of ethnic Albanians. Macedonians allowed this to happen. Macedonians accept this by continuing to vote for people that form coalitions with ethnic Albanians. Ethnic Albanians have the final say on any acts which relate to to Macedonia's sovereignty. Macedonians seem to have embraced the ventilator, the ultimate symbol of capitulation for Macedonia.

See if you can roll that turd in glitter in order to let it shine.

I hold Macedonians responsible for this. Not Greeks, Not the USA or EU ... Macedonians. Not all of them though.

Is it so wrong to single out anti-Macedonians or acts which are not in the interest of Macedonia? My suggestion to those that are offended by this is for them to harden up a little. That the ones who are presently dismantling Macedonia could not care less about their or my feelings.

Macedonians control their own fortune, they make the decisions, and they bare the consequences. From what I've gathered, there is a lack of competent leadership from most (if not all) political parties in Macedonia. Perhaps the MTO should run for presidency, and if you did, you won't appeal to voters if you accuse them of being 'anti-Macedonian.' No it's not wrong to single them out, but I believe there are only a small minority of true anti-Macedonians whom are Macedonian. The rest should be treated as 'normal' Macedonians, and they should be actively encouraged and educated to stand up and act on the current sad reality.

It's ok Risto, I drank my cup of cement on these forums long ago, otherwise I would have conformed to your exact views, beliefs and principles at the very beginning of the debate.

[Risto the Great]

You divide and insult Macedonians with your games, you both (Vangelovski & RtG) are acting poorly, showing a lack of respect for people who should be your friends

Your ridicule is an apt example of how it alienates people, you are not openly aggressive, but your aggression is there to see in your sarcasm, and it doesn't work, this post is an example of that

Thanks for lowering my view of you both

You pick on EM like school yard bullies, trying to push him into loosing his temper, maybe you both where bullies as kids, but grow up for the sake of us all

The Greeks must be loving this BS

I am not going to comment further

I am so far past Greeks at this point. They are nothing more than amusement for me nowadays.

I am really against Macedonians who continue to grasp on to a "half-identities". I do wish to divide. I want just the strong ones who will have the vision to go the distance through the ideological void that exists in Macedonia.

I personally have a fair bit of faith in EM. I think he will come through the other side and be better for it. There is no harm in him trying his approach, it has been going on for 20 years so nobody will be offended by it.

[Risto the Great]

It's ok Risto, I drank my cup of cement on these forums long ago, otherwise I would have conformed to your exact views, beliefs and principles at the very beginning of the debate.

Let me know where our views diverge.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Gruevski says the exact same thing.
He will put it to a vote instead.

You are drawing irrelevant parallels. Gruevski is elected to make the 'right' decision, he should be taking full responsibility for Macedonians. Macedonia's values should not have to go to a referendum, for if they truly represent the people, they would not have to ask them of their identity and name.

This is an internet forum. I'm not going to make your decisions for you, your old enough and competent enough to do that for yourself. That doesn't mean however, that you should be making decisions for others.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Seriously, are you feeling forced right now?
Will you do anything against your will because you are talking to a few veterans of mindless banter on an internet forum?

I suspect not. In which case, the theory that we can force anyone is flawed. In fact, we are trying to challenge the present mindset that has guaranteed beyond any doubt nothing will change.

Yes I am, otherwise my views would not continue to be ridiculed page after page.
No I won't. I'm not going to compromise due to your position on this forum.

Yet, the banter persists, showing that you are trying to force people. It doesn't necessary mean they will give in, however the 'forceful' approach does not change due to differing outcomes.

Let me know where our views diverge.

Approach. Hasn't that question been asked enough? I like to think I've made it pretty clear.

[Sputnik]

I doubt they are all ignorant of the damage the ventilator has caused and continues to cause.

i do not differ in opinion towards the current state flag. I only differ in it causes less damage than associating our language with it being slavic. Talk about ignorance.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Cultea has been banned for spreading anti-Macedonian propaganda.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I only differ in it causes less damage than associating our language with it being slavic. Talk about ignorance.

No such thing as "less damage" where it concerns the ventilator. It is absolutely devastating to the Macedonian Cause. I take it your 'slavic' pun is directed at me. If you have something to say with regard to how Macedonian is associated with Slavic languages you're on the wrong thread. Post your thoughts on the below link, and then we will see who is ignorant and who is not:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=112762#post112762

Interesting username by the way, it is a word in Russian, which is a Slavic language. A Macedonian equivalent would probably be 'Sopatnik'. Clearly miles apart.

[Risto the Great]

Yes I am, otherwise my views would not continue to be ridiculed page after page.
No I won't. I'm not going to compromise due to your position on this forum.

Would you be inclined to dig your heels in out of spite on any matter?

[Vangelovski]

Don't worry, I started the Alphabet back in pre-school...
I'm not telling you to adopt anything, it isn't up to me what choice you make. The difference is as you point out, I'm advising members of the MTO, however on the other hand, you are forcing an 'approach' onto them.

So you were involved in activism in pre-school? You're starting to sound like Meto!

[EgejskaMakedonia]

So you were involved in activism in pre-school? You're starting to sound like Meto!

Nope, but I learnt that B is after A.

Would you be inclined to dig your heels in out of spite on any matter?

Who said I was doing that in this case? I'm acting on my own accord, not seeking to 'win' the argument for my personal ego.