Ventilator

[julie]

The way things are going, I think Macedonia is more likely to become an Albanian state rather than be divided up amongst its neighbours.

Definitely plausible, after witnessing whole Macedonians towns and villages predominantly Albanian

[Vangelovski]

I haven't read the document in a great amount of detail, but I do know that the Macedonian government does have the right to withdraw from the IA, and the fact that 16 years on this 'agreement' is still in place says a lot about our so called 'leaders.'

I recall there was talk about the Greek side withdrawing from the agreement due to an infringement they committed, which was subsequently taken to the ICJ. It is beyond my intellectual capabilities to muster why the Macedonian government would take the Greek officials to court over not accepting them as FYR Macedonia into an organisation. However, are the Greeks still contemplating withdrawing from the agreement, or was someone just being too optimistic about an embarrassing court case?

Macedonia, like any sovereign state, can enter into agreements and withdraw from them at any time. It can also declare an agreement to be 'null and void'. This is what we want Macedonia to do.

That means that Macedonia would be saying that the IA has no legal effect whatsoever and would be treated as if it never existed.
'Withdrawing' from the IA implies that it was a legitimate agreement based on a legitimate Greek grievance. We do not accept that.

But what we are saying is nothing new. Most Australian Macedonian organisations have been saying this from the beginning. We have taken this idea on and made it a central policy because we agree with it.

[Vangelovski]

What I've really had trouble finding though is a Macedonian flag with the design in the middle, or as many call it the kutlesh sun.

Speak to Igor Aleksandrov from the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney. They produce very high quality versions of the sonce with the design in the middle. You can contact him at [email protected]. He will put you onto the right person.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Macedonia, like any sovereign state, can enter into agreements and withdraw from them at any time. It can also declare an agreement to be 'null and void'. This is what we want Macedonia to do.

That means that Macedonia would be saying that the IA has no legal effect whatsoever and would be treated as if it never existed.
'Withdrawing' from the IA implies that it was a legitimate agreement based on a legitimate Greek grievance. We do not accept that.

But what we are saying is nothing new. Most Australian Macedonian organisations have been saying this from the beginning. We have taken this idea on and made it a central policy because we agree with it.

It also what the DPMNE government should want to do as well if they truly had the values of their people at heart. You make a very valid point with the distinction of 'withdrawing' as opposed to officially declaring the IA null and void, the way you put it, there definitely is a adequate difference.

Just to speculate a little, if Macedonia (moreso a question of WHEN) revert back to its rightful flag, declare the IA invalid and immediately terminate all name negotiations, what do you believe the Greek response would be? Not that I care for their reaction, as the Macedonian sovereignty should always be paramount and independent from any potentially destructive external influences, but I am quite interested in such circumstances. Personally, I would love to see them jump up and down, but have they been bluffing this entire time? The Macedonian government should not even be playing poker with enemies who clearly seek the destruction of Macedonia. Another economic blockade seems almost out of the question, considering the grave that modern Greece find themselves in.

The real question is, why is the Macedonian government attempting to appease foreign governments and corrupt organisations? I'd rather be excluded from 'the club' and maintain my own self dignity and pride then be accepted for a fake identify based on lies and ass-kissing. When Macedonia finally rids itself of the shackles of injustice and deprivation, this in itself should be considered as an Independence day. A day where Macedonia is finally, and definitively recognised only as Macedonia, for the Macedonians, with the reflection of a 16-ray sun heralding every new proud day of this great nation's existence. Perhaps such a day seems a long-distant dream today, but with the initiatives of competent Macedonian organisations and a people's government, is within realistic reach.

Speak to Igor Aleksandrov from the Macedonian Orthodox Community of Sydney. They produce very high quality versions of the sonce with the design in the middle. You can contact him at [email protected]. He will put you onto the right person.

Thanks Tom, I'll keep this in mind for future reference.

[Vangelovski]

what do you believe the Greek response would be?

A lot of wailing but other than that, nothing. Outside of Greece, I doubt anyone will even take notice for more than a day or two. Many scaremongers out there will cry bloody murder and try to convince us that Greece will do this, that and the other. But Greece never really did anything the first time around and they won't do anything now.

But I don't think the vassal politicians are afraid of Greece. I think there are various reasons they do what they are doing, including the irrational belief that they will somehow be rewarded by their masters in Brussels.

[Risto the Great]

Without a doubt, all of this is related to the EU carrot that has been dangled in front of modestly paid politicians salivating at the thought of administering EU Funded programs/initiatives. Jobs for the boys.

[Risto the Great]

Hey EM, I like your avatar.
;-)

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Hey EM, I like your avatar.
;-)

Lol, thanks Risto. Nothing says 'I'm sorry' like a 5 minute photoshop. Let's just say that I signed a certain agreement whereby either my avatar changes, or I change...into bozo the clown.

[Risto the Great]

EM, your observations don't put you in the Bozo category. No need to worry.

[Bij]

Sonce paraphernalia is readily available to anyone who has made even the slightest effort to find it. I assume your from Australia? Visit your local church or go online. You may find that Aussie Macedonians don't just sit on their butt's complaining, but have already produced a wide selection of products.

This is why you're a fuckwit. You're so quick to attack and make little to no effort to have a constructive conversation with someone, odma pocna so "Aussie Macedonians don't just sit on their butts complaining" - who the fuck is complaining? If you want to be an activist, you need to stop attacking and start explaining. You obviously have a lot of knowledge and passion on the topic, put it in the right place and stop being such a fucking jerk. I feel like draping myself in the ventilator za inaet because you're such a douche bag, but don't worry, I wont.

If history repeats itself, then you need to look at the past and see how leaders managed to unite their people. Pull out your high school textbooks and take a look at the unification of germany, italy, etc. You need to appeal to the hearts and minds of your public and not bash them like an ape. I think you'd find most Macedonians have their hearts in the right place but are just uninformed. A great opportunity exists to educate and mediate rather than bash bash bash bash bash.

FYI, my church sells bibles and brojanice's (from the GOC mind you) and haven't seen any sonce stuff for sale there. Having said that, my church doesn't have a priest so nothing surprises me.

[Bij]

Have you tried getting off your horse and making an effort to at least look for one?

yes I have, 5 items on ebay doesn't thrill me (compared to 300 items with the ventilator).

We have a lot of talented Macedonians who should be able to come up with some really emotive and empowering graphics. Unfortunately, I'm not that talented but I would love to see imagery like this saturating the average Macedonian.

[Vangelovski]

Bij,

I believe these are you words:

Here's a thought - perhaps rather than sitting on the forum and blasting people about the ventilator, you should start educating them from the ground up and build a network that will provide kutlesh imagery to be used on items from desktop backgrounds to iphone covers.

Here is where I pointed out that Aussie Macedonians don't just sit on their butts:

Sonce paraphernalia is readily available to anyone who has made even the slightest effort to find it. I assume your from Australia? Visit your local church or go online. You may find that Aussie Macedonians don't just sit on their butt's complaining, but have already produced a wide selection of products.

You insinuated that people just sit on the forum, I pointed out that they don't. Noone said that you were. You seem to get confused really quickly.

[Bij]

Bij,
You insinuated that people just sit on the forum, I pointed out that they don't. Noone said that you were. You seem to get confused really quickly.

and pray tell what exactly you're doing away from insulting people on this forum about the ventilator?

[Vangelovski]

and pray tell what exactly you're doing away from insulting people on this forum about the ventilator?

Try reading a little more widely.

[Bij]

Try reading a little more widely.

I've read enough of you jumping on everyone. If that's what passes as "activism" nowadays, no wonder Macedonia is where it is.