Ventilator

[Phoenix]

Flags...

“A flag is a piece of fabric with a distinctive design that is usually rectangular and used as a symbol, as a signaling device, or decoration...
National flags are potent patriotic symbols with varied wide-ranging interpretations, often including strong military associations due to their original and ongoing military uses...”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag

I wonder where this definition of a flag sits with the ‘Ventilatorists’?

What does the flag mean to them, what does it symbolize, or is it merely a decorative piece of rectangular fabric. Does it create a sense of patriotism, can that patriotism be stirred to truly “potent” levels?
The hallmark of a sovereign state is the free adoption of a national flag, the flag becomes the defining symbol of the nation and serves as a unifying symbol of the nation. Most importantly, the flag is the link to the history of the nation.

The current Macedonian flag fails to meet those fundamental requirements and considerations. The flag stands as a stain on Macedonian sovereignty and signals the self inflicted demise of our identity.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

MTO, is the "voice" of ALL Macedonians and not only the Republic of Macedonia; therefore, the forced Greek "ventilator" is only a symbol (lina) for those Macedonians.

[George S.]

They don't seem to care.It's like being a defeatist wuth lots of excuses.THat's why it makes more sense to go back to what it was before & tell those that hate us we will not be beaten so easily.Macedonia is for the macedonians & our flag is what we chose not one that is forced by our enemies.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The flag stands as a stain on Macedonian sovereignty and signals the self inflicted demise of our identity.

Perfectly stated.

[Risto the Great]

Well stated Phoenix.
In fact, the ventilator does not qualify as a flag under your well reasoned assessment.

[Pelister]

“A flag is a piece of fabric with a distinctive design that is usually rectangular and used as a symbol, as a signaling device, or decoration...
National flags are potent patriotic symbols with varied wide-ranging interpretations, often including strong military associations due to their original and ongoing military uses...”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag

I wonder where this definition of a flag sits with the ‘Ventilatorists’?

What does the flag mean to them, what does it symbolize, or is it merely a decorative piece of rectangular fabric. Does it create a sense of patriotism, can that patriotism be stirred to truly “potent” levels?
The hallmark of a sovereign state is the free adoption of a national flag, the flag becomes the defining symbol of the nation and serves as a unifying symbol of the nation. Most importantly, the flag is the link to the history of the nation.

The current Macedonian flag fails to meet those fundamental requirements and considerations. The flag stands as a stain on Macedonian sovereignty and signals the self inflicted demise of our identity.

That is it in a nutshell.

[George S.]

it was a self imposed flag by the government without consulting the people which flag they want or whether they wish to compromise or capitulate at all.
It is not just a big blow on sovereignity but a blow on human rights.One of the fundamentals is the right to self determination.THe people of a country have a right to pick the flag.In a democracy the people have to be consulted on fundamental changes to flag or name of a country.The current flag is not really a flag as it wasn't chosen by its citizens.
THe flag is a derogatory symbol with no historical importance ecept capitulation & it is jokingly reffered as the ventilator.
Most people think that it's allright to use the ventilator flag because they don't wish to challenge the govt.THey could literally change it back any time they want.The people don't know any different & have become complacent in the govt activity by letting them do what they want without really questioning & making anything they wish to do as an election issue.

[lavce pelagonski]

The young are blinded by the ventilator, they have no clue how it came about.

[George S.]

The ventilator is everything abhorent that has happened to the macedonian people since 1913.Previously we had such people doing attrocities to us well the flag is the ventilator & that is a symbol of capitulation by our own gvernment on it's people.This is without justification or moral reason to foist this change on a people subjected by genocide & other human attrocities by all those that are anti macedonian.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The ventilator painted on a young Macedonian standing in front of the warrior on a horse. I am sure the female in the photo has her heart in the right place, but she is either uninformed or ideologically flawed. Whatever it is, she obviously thinks that symbol and the nameless statue of Alexander are acceptable. The wrong thing has been assumed as the right thing. This is the problem facing our people.

Welcome to Gruevski's Macedonia.

[VMRO]

Have Macedonians already forgotten what happened in Krushevo during Ilinden around the time the flag was adopted by the traitors?

The traitor ex communists and their supporters were beaten and the flags were pulled down and burnt.

[Phoenix]

If we delve a little deeper into flags and their symbolism, we can deconstruct their unique elements and break them down into the meaning of colours and the meaning of their (graphic) symbols.

The Macedonian flag is a yellow sun symbol on a red background.

The colour red is generally associated with a sense of seriousness, readiness for a serious spiritual or political encounter. It is also associated with blood, sacrificial rites and the shedding of blood.
Red is therefore used as a symbol of heightened spiritual and political mood, sacrifice and struggle.
Within the Scriptures, the colour red is primarily associated with blood and war.

(The red background of the Soviet Union flag is a good example of the relationship between colour symbolism and the historical perspective of struggle and human sacrifice)

The colour yellow generally symbolizes sanctity, preciousness, royalty, wealth spiritual vitality, and fertility. (The colour Gold has similar symbolism... royalty, wealth, elegance, high status, supreme quality, glory, and spiritual purity).
Interestingly, the colour yellow has such a low occurrence in the Scriptures that it makes it difficult to derive a symbolic meaning.

The sun symbol is found in every civilization in the history of mankind.
The sun is an emblem of glory, brilliance, authority, happiness, life, spirituality and hope.

In Christianity the sun is a symbol of the Christ, or Christ-like attributes.

Associated strongly with sun symbolism is another strong Macedonian symbol, the lion. In astrology the lion is known as a Solar animal or a fire sign animal, these are creatures that correspond with the sun.
In most cultures Lions represent courage, wisdom, royalty, justice and protection. The Lion embodies other attributes such as loyalty, perseverance, ferocity, bravery, and victory. The Lion may also speak to your softer side as it also embodies compassion.

Interestingly, the Lion is also depicted on the Strength card of the Tarot, and as such, represents strength in an interpretation.

Alchemically, the Lion is held in the highest regards of the tradition. So much so that it symbolizes gold or the sun – the very highest characteristics of ascension and enlightenment. Furthermore, due to its virility, strength, and perceived courage, the lion was seen as the ultimate protector of alchemical secrets, as well as keeper of the underworld.

The colours red, yellow and the sun symbol are rich in meaning and interpretation, they represent elements and traits that are noble, universal, inspirational, spiritual, powerful, reflective, honest and humble, so many good and beautiful human values. The very nature of the sun symbol is an enduring connection to our earliest pagan ancestors and comfortably bridges todays Christian beliefs.

These are the non-negotiable fundamentals of flag design that represent the Macedonian nation, this is what I see in the Kutlesh Sonce.

“What we perceive and what we understand depends upon what we are”
Aldous Huxley

[Vangelovski]

I've merged Phoenix's flags thread with this one just to keep it all together.

[Pelister]

I would like to add that it is a feature of supplanting regimes throughout history to steal (i.e, thieve) the cultural symbols of the people it means to conquer.

The invading 'Greek' regime adopted this symbol only after the Macedonians chose it freely as theirs.

[Volk]

I would like to add that it is a feature of supplanting regimes throughout history to steal (i.e, thieve) the cultural symbols of the people it means to conquer.

The invading 'Greek' regime adopted this symbol only after the Macedonians chose it freely as theirs.

Crucial point Pelister!