Stojan Andov on the Greek Civil War

[mango]

http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/default.asp?ItemID=C0F209ECA7F4CA4F9476F20948212E31

[Soldier of Macedon]

Mango, you're supposed to post the article in full or a summarised translation. Can you explain to readers what this article is about?

[George S.]

here's the text
Tito's ambitions to break the back of the Aegean Macedonians!



Idea came out with the Republic of Macedonia to apologize to the Aegean Macedonians. Tito's ambitions to break the back of the Aegean Macedonians!

Idea came out with the Republic of Macedonia to apologize to the Aegean Macedonians. Why? - The biggest casualty of tThe biggest casualty of the Civil War in Greece just Aegean Macedonians! Historical documents show that until the Civil War probably would not have occurred if not interfered Yugoslav leadership. These data are from the historian who investigated these data are called Risto Kirjazovski, but unfortunately he is deceased. Sometime in late 1992 or 1993, Risto came to me and talked about four hours. He wore the text of the book "The five vital years from 1945 to 1949" was not printed and are thought to act as our public and whether to print. He gave me a broader context of events and what he does. I told him that it is very important to complete studies to document scientific and required to publish them. There were problems, but the book is published in a relatively small circulation and is no longer in stores. There are given accurate historical data when it is done flagrant interference by the Yugoslav through the then Macedonian leadership. It happens on April 23, 1945 here in Skopje, where many activists were collected from Aegean Macedonia, our Macedonian, Greek citizens of course, when it is formed National Liberation Front and other organizations that will act as the Yugoslav territory of Greece. n What was the purpose of these organizations? - They had a task that the participants of the meeting they explained Cvetko Uzunovski-Abbas. Organizations should strengthen the Yugoslav consciousness, awareness of Yugoslav origin, but also to work on separation of Aegean Macedonia and its annexation to the former Yugoslavia. In addition to political work, emphasizing that this goal will need to apply an armed struggle in May and has already been established, says Kirjazovski, numerous individual armed groups from the local Macedonians. He also says that both of then Yugoslav secret service, OZNA as civilian and second grade of the Yugoslav Army who were engaged in intelligence, in Aegean Macedonia, the territory of Greece, set up your network and recruit the best activists formed organizations. Kirjazovski indicates that young people caught up with the idea of national liberation, who had no intention or knowledge that they were doing something unlawful, illegal. They thought that they were doing very useful work, unaware they were sacrificed. Since then obviously all of them, their families and all who were under their leadership suffered very severe consequences. They are the biggest casualties in the Civil War, as eligible unfounded and indefensible task, which can be selected from any one side. bad and unjustified political assessment n You say an apology to members of armed organizations or common to all Aegean Macedonians? - Not all Macedonians, but for all participants in the Democratic Army of Greece (DAG), and all victims of civil war. n So victims are all Macedonians, not just members of the DAG? - Victims in the Civil War in Greece is not only our Aegean Macedonians, but also Greeks. Thus, the war was initiated on the basis of poor, ill-founded political assessment of the leadership of the Greek Communist Party that in Greece there is a favorable revolutionary situation and that international relations and the role of the then socialist countries, above all 'the Soviet Union, are already such that in Greece can be derived socialist revolution. But it is completely wrong assessment and decision. This assessment is not accurate. In fact, in Greece and could not perform a socialist revolution, but civil war erupted in which one side was the legal Greek government, and the other rebel DAG which forms a temporary democratic government, which was not recognized by anyone. Do not admitted nor Yugoslavia, which intervened in the events in Greece and do not recognize any other neighboring socialist countries, Bulgaria and Albania, nor the Soviet Union. Thus, were actually faced two unequal forces. Civil war in Greece was mainly in Aegean Macedonia, the Drama Kastoria, sometimes Epirus, and extremely, rare actions outside those areas. During the war, Doug never collected, according to data that has Kirjazovski, more than 35,000 of its members, of whom only 25,000 can be in combat tasks. Against them were at least 180,000 members of the regular armed forces of the Greek government. They had no chance to succeed. The Zaharijadis, general secretary of the Communist Party of Greece (KPG), hesitated about the true purpose. Very soon after starting the Civil War, he speaks of seizing power and establishing the socialist People's Democratic Greece, but thinks that military success would force the existing legal Greek government to negotiate with the CP and the Headquarters of the DAG to make a joint government. Understand, completely vague and unsubstantiated goals. And it is Zaharijadis predupreduvan and Georgi Dimitrov, the French communists, in a certain way and the Soviet, and often had a direct and personal meetings with Tito. n What is the role of the Communist Party of Macedonia in this segment? - The interference in the internal Affairs of Greece through the actions that led Yugoslav leadership is directly involved and the Communist Party of Macedonia (CPM). Kirjazovski tells that the first instructor of the Yugoslav political organizations in Aegean Macedonia was Miha Marinko, Slovenian, but soon afterwards was sent Nikola Minchev, a member of the Politburo of the CPM, and if it comes Dimitar Aleksievski-baker. Major contracts for activities there are to be implemented, take place in Skopje and Belgrade. It is a great matter that much knowledge is scattered, acts, documents, and they exist in the Archives. Probably need to do additional research that would allow Macedonia to change the attitude toward the Civil War in Greece as a historical event. Macedonia can not stay on it for grades as they are formulated in May 1945, when the Yugoslav leadership sent demarche in Potsdam, which says that in Greece ruling monarch-fascist regime, and in fact there is a government established by the British. In World War II, the British fight against fascism and longest very difficult them to proclaim the monarch-fascists or their supporters. Accordingly, this qualification in our literature exists today, and it has some of the older textbooks, is historically inaccurate and is forging a reality. It is a civil war, not fight against the forces of democratic monarch-fascism in Greece. It is a war between two concepts that came after the Second World War. One pro-Western, to form a representative parliamentary democracy through multiparty elections, and the other, popular democracy, as it vospostavuvale countries that had the presence of the Red Army. By order of the Politburo of the Soviet Union, they first did the Popular Front government dominated by the Communist Party, then all other parties are throwing out there and their leadership had been tried, and all politicians who have any or any links with the West . They were tried as traitors, has in Bulgaria, Romania ... n in Macedonia? - Here is a specific case, it is not fully investigated. So I had some ideas about what Macedonia needs to rehabilitate. I wanted the law to do, but we failed because we got out of the government, which then had to tackle the job. In Trieste contracts are respected n as compared to the Aegean builds shopping for Trieste and the role of Tito in it? - the time factor is very important. At the time he needed to go to Thessaloniki or Srem, Tito was still weak. Half Yugoslavia was under fascist rule and Thessaloniki had already been ejected a strong British Division. Tito then mentions Trieste. Waste of energy is hearing about the dilemma to go in Thessaloniki, not Srem, because it deprives of Macedonia the status of anti-fascist ally of the forces, because going into conflict with one of the anti-fascist countries. Greece is a member of the antifascist coalition, its a government in exile, and also at that time already has a coalition government headed by Papandreou, the grandfather of today's Prime Minister George Papandreou. Trieste in May comes even before the capitulation of Germany, when Yu-spaces has a relatively weak German forces who want to surrender to the British in Italy, led by General Alexander. But they have problems passing the River and can not come to Trieste. Well, Tito with his armies taking the Trieste. When Alexander threatens that he must step down or be attacked, he turns to Stalin to see whether they will stand behind him. Stalin tells him that it was time for the job and Tito is retiring. But as a capable politician, Broz not withdraw just like that, so do the European Free Territory of Trieste. But it is important to note that in Italy continues to go in line with earlier agreements at regular channels. There are no secrets coverage from Yugoslavia to Italy as it is done in Greece. n But the time difference occurs when all this is relatively short and why Macedonian communists did not inform the Macedonians from the Aegean part of that policy change? - Main Macedonian message was, and in documents of the Anti stated that Macedonia should be united. However, documents, letters, declarations, statements, especially those of Michael Pastoral show that unification can not be set as immediate purpose. If the merge takes place, will take place within Yugoslavia, but if the international situation, it does not provide, then you will need to wait. Do not launch a water mill of the enemy, says the Apostles, which means that he directly warn. And it should be noted that these things have almost no international status. ASNOM is internal work of Yugoslavia, although there attend foreign military missions. We must be eternally grateful and continually remember the people who worked and then created what today we as a country. But do not laugh this year 1944-45 to imagine her today. Today we have no right to behave the same way as it was then because there were many secret agreements between major powers, and people here know little about it. Now the situation is quite different. We now have to defend this country, but some do not share the beliefs of the time, they were proved wrong. Each, so that great generation, despite the correct and proper, and had ideas that were dangerous misconceptions. And these things need to know. In Macedonia, unfortunately, do not talk about it. Here you want historical events, conditions, processes today to interpret the way people popular and best received by this awareness. But that has nothing to learn from history. You can not make history today what you need! n How do you conceive the apology? - If we have the courage to face the past, we see that most tragic event of the Macedonian people is the death of 21,000 Macedonians in Greece in the Civil War in whose cause his share and had the participation of Macedonia as a country which has inherited the Macedonian and Yugoslav Communist Party. The idea that Greece should begin with an armed revolution, an armed secessionist revolt of Aegean Macedonia is the idea of Yugoslav leadership, and it presents Cvetko Uzunovski. Abbas did not do it on their own. He was a senior official, Interior Minister and Secretary of the organizational CPM. If it was the Yugoslav Communist Party, the Macedonians were not allowed to touched it. The bones of those 21,000 Macedonians scattered not only in Greece but also here, has in Bitola, Katlanovo ... I do not know and are all identified, counted, marked. It is the hardest blow to the Macedonian people. We in Macedonia during the Second World War we had 26,000 casualties, but are counted and 7,300 Macedonian Jews who were taken to Treblinka, and there are Albanians, Turks ... If you speak only of the Macedonian people is objectively difficult shot on the Aegean Macedonians in the Civil War in Greece. At least it is we have to apologize to those people who were not alone. The civil war killed about 30,000 Greeks. These are very difficult things, even more when it comes to historical events and the heaviest single war in Europe since World War II until the early 90s and wars in the former Yu-spaces. We must show ability, strength and courage to apologize to all victims. For victims not only those who died. Victims are those who remain mutilated, separated families, psychologically burdened people who live a century of alien life, and so there are Macedonians and Greeks. Tito has been away n I implied this and questioning the role of Tito in terms of the Macedonian question? - Tito is one of najzebelezhitelnite figures in the Second World War and the crucial role he has the possibility of Macedonia and the Macedonians to be recognized as a nation in Yugoslavia and have their own state. But Tito's mistake is the idea that the future of the world and opposition to imperialism is not a sufficient one great Soviet state, such as the Soviet Union, but requires at least one adapted to European conditions. And he probably struggle with this idea. Starting from such positions, Tito shows claim to Albania where Inform sent across two divisions, under the pretext that it may be the victim of a monarch-fascist forces from neighboring Greece. Here snap gourd with Stalin. At the same time, he conspired with Dimitrov unification of Yugoslavia with Bulgaria, and the two divisions that provide clues will thus be united with Albania and Greece helps the Civil War that actually need to change the government and introduce democracy, which can survive only if Yugoslavia helps ... Tito has carried away with the idea that you can make a major Central European-Balkan socialist state, because of World War II emerges as the winner with a large military force. I must say that I am engaged and often collaborated with him. I had the opportunity to hear some speeches in relaxed situations. He said that the war was only four, Stalin, Roosevelt, Churchill and he. For De Gaulle believed that he was a radio announcer and he had caught a gun. He knew to say that Churchill and Britain have a function in Europe, accepting the offer by the United States, until Stalin accepted anything for us, a similar function! n OK, but the cost for such his idea, ultimately paid the Macedonians Aegean Macedonia? - on them to break the job. Tito We should talk about his greatness, the positive sides of good that did for Macedonia and Macedonians. But we have to determine and its function and role in the adventure of which are easily pulled. Tito had a very strong position. When he saw that Stalin not prevent the idea of spreading its influence around and wants to throw out Imformbiroto, he withstood the pressure. At that point, West said that is useful as a force that can inside the liner, to oppose Stalin and thus begin the dismantling of the socialist bloc. British Tito accept some demands on the end of the Civil War in Greece, in late 1949 that ended in 1951 and has already started working on creating so-called Balkan Pact. n It turns out that the Macedonians are in a paradoxical situation. On the one hand, communism recognizes the existence of the Macedonian people and nation, enabled the establishment of first state of the Macedonian people, and on the other hand, the Macedonians are the biggest victims of communism? - It may seem paradoxical, but I must say that it has a perfect , bound logic. Will I use the example. In August 1944, after Tehran agreements, King Peter, under pressure from Churchill and the British government, calls on members of military formations, so Chetniks, domobranite, balistite, and all but nedikjevcite Ustasha, to put under the command of Tito and to transfer the side of anti-fascist partisans, as the only force in Yugoslavia. This speaks volumes about what position he had gained Tito and his army in the eyes of the Allies. Hence, probably originates from his belief that the war ended a great job and even the ambition to make another great socialist state. Ideas for Danube confederation or federation Balkans were always present and passed by many reliable sources.

[indigen]

http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/default.as...76F20948212E31

Dnevnik : Датум: 09.07.2011, 01:49

Интервју Стојан Андов

Амбициите на Тито се скршија врз грбот на егејските Македонци!

Груевски да му се извини на Папандреу?!

n Во својата колумна велите дека за ова треба премиерот Груевски да го информира својот колега Папандреу. Сметате дека тоа ќе биде доволно за надминување на проблемот или имплицирате дека по примерот на Германија и Полска треба да следи и некое официјално извинување на Македонија спрема Грција?

- Јас не велам да го информира за ова што досега го говорам, туку Груевски да го информира Папандреу дека Македонија, како држава што има европски амбиции, се владее според сегашните принципи на ОН, на ОБСЕ, и сака да стане член и сојузник со земјите-членки на НАТО и ЕУ, ја осудува политиката што Тито и југословенскиот режим ја воделе кон Грција во периодот од 1945 до крајот на Граѓанската војна. Треба да ја ослободиме оваа наша земја од било каква вина за тоа што тогаш се случувало. Тоа што стравотно го погодило, пред с` македонскиот народ во Грција, исто така стравотно го погодило и грчкиот народ. Тоа во споменот на Грците е стравотна опасност од север и затоа е овој отпор. Со ова, ние во многу би го олесниле дијалогот. Верувам дека никој не би ни правел проблем ниту околу македонскиот јазик, ниту околу Македонија ваква или онаква, ако ние јавно и јасно дадеме консензуално сознание дека ги осудуваме тие настани и постапките на тогашните власти и дека немаме намера ниту да толерираме, камоли да практикуваме идеи за нешто слично. Кажувајќи им го тоа на Грците, истовремено го кажуваме и на целиот свет. Македонија треба да се движи, нас никој не н` разбира, ниту пак некогаш ќе н` разбере.

Бобан Нонковиќ

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Namesto nam da ni se izvinuva Grcija (kako i site drugi okpupatori na makedonska zemja i asimilatori, negatori i ugnetiteli (oppressors) na Makedonskiot narod - Albanija, Bugarija i Srbija i nivnite sojuznici i pordzuvaci) za genocidot sto go ima izvrseno i sto se uste go izvrsuva sprema Makedoncite pod grcka okupacija i voopsto niz celiot svet, sega ODRODNIKOT/PREDAVNIKOT Andov se pojavuva so uste eden drug GLUPAV biser, PMV (po moe viduvanje)!

[makedonin]

This people are getting paid to say things like this and than they get away with out any consequence. Well, when the Albanian terrorist can do it, why they can't?
Disgusting...

[Risto the Great]

Yeah OK, Tito was the instigator.
Wasn't he Delcev's best mate back in the day?