1912-13 Macedonian Borders

[Zarni]

Obama (as if a word should be heard from his mouth but thats another discussion) has upset the Isrealis by suggesting the 1967 borders be a foundation to build on.

I would like Macedonian activists somewere on this great green Earth be brave and ask support for a similiar call in our struggle and send it not to anyone but the Macedonian Government.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Which borders are you suggesting we revert back to, pre-1912? That will not happen unless there is a war, which nobody wants to see.

[Droog]

Technically in order to revert to certain border conditions those borders must have existed in the past and of course no "Great anything" in the Balkans ever had the borders that Balkans people of all nations want to revert to.

[George S.]

unless greece dissapears oof the face of the map.I had some people remind me that the treaty of bucharest is up on it's 100 years & perhaps wishfull thinking greece would give back macedonia to it's people ??

[Zarni]

Just ask the question, debate, anthing will do that is I want to see.

And pigs will fly that is what Macedonians have become scared to make any noise or a wimper.

[Niko777]

First Macedonia should focus on securing its own (current) borders, which it has failed to do in the last 20 years.

[Louis Riel]

Technically in order to revert to certain border conditions those borders must have existed in the past and of course no "Great anything" in the Balkans ever had the borders that Balkans people of all nations want to revert to.

"Greater" Macedonia would stretch from the Danube to the Indus.

Vardar,Egej,Pirin,Mala Prespa etc....these places dont make up a "greater" Macedonia....they are Macedonia.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Macedonia has historical precedent and a generally defined location for 2,500 years. Droog, has there ever been a state or generally defined location for anything called 'Shqiperia' prior to the 20th century? While many things in the Balkans are similar, not everything is the same. Your attempt to minimise Macedonian territorial significance stems from your inability to produce an equivalent precedent for your own country. In fact, nearly every post of yours has been an attempt to undermine Macedonian nationhood, as I stated earlier, in both public and private correspondence - I am still waiting for you to corroborate your allegations that certain Macedonian figures from Albania have declared four different ethnicities. Are you going to back up that allegation, or should I assume it to be the same typical garbage one would hear by the average anti-Macedonian type like yourself?

[vojnik]

I agree wth Niko777, Macedonia needs to fix problems within the current Republic before it attempts to even make a move in restoring it's original boarders prior to the Balkan Wars. Also chances are slim that any boarder changes will occur when the Bucharest Treaty is reviewed in 2013. The west developed that treaty for a reason for ther own goals I am sure everyone here is familar with the purpose of the treaty and I highly doubt they will reconsider something they developed for their own interests.

[Vangelovski]

Just on the issue of the Bucharest Treaty. This has been discussed a number of times but it seems rumours persist. There is no revision. It was never set for 100 years.

Besides, the Bucharest Treaty has already been superceded a number of times by various other treaties, including the treaties ending WWI and WWII, and the Helsinki Final Act.

[Christoff]

Zarni is correct. The issue should be discussed as a real option, if for no other reason than to establish a political posture. If the current borders between Bulgaria,Greece and Macedonia were open, this will be the inevitable result anyway.

Christoff

[Soldier of Macedon]

Christoff, can you define how this option can realistically be achieved?

[Zarni]

It is not importatant if this can be accomplished it is important the Macedonian Govt be aware that a vocal voice in a minor political party call it a far right movement and the disporra seek the Bucharest Treaty be debated as part of any negotiation with Athens and that Sofia put on call too as they are also closley following behind the greeks .

its a far deal this govt and its lazy citizens are open to debating our identity and since the Macedonian Govt bluntly refuses to listen or take any consideration in ending debate with Athens lets us up the stakes, place conditions on Athens i.e return of property and recognition of the Macedonian minority togheter we can empasis the later lets make it a strategy similarily to how the Albanian disporra use the Natural Albania banner

The Mak govt will isolate itself from this but i dont care i want someone to just take this position dont you all think since the International Community namely the European fold is asking so much from Macedonians we shouldnt return the pot shot I am certantly not expecting any movement from our Govt but to fall back on a referendum rather then defend our principles and human right not to have to listen to greek demands let alone entertain them

And lets ponder Sofia to regognise the Macedonian Political party and return the status of Macedonians before 1955 were Bulgaria aknowledeged the existance of its Macedonian minority, Sofia is not to be ignored

Remember we are in the position not the other party to find a solution and comprimise since Greece has not bent or has given any demand away

I usually hate long winded rants but i just whish Macedonians can be offensive after all what is being demanded of us is unprecedentated. It is embarissing we our in this position really I can not put that in words to emphasis it strongley enough.

[Risto the Great]

I usually hate long winded rants but i just whish Macedonians can be offensive after all what is being demanded of us is unprecedentated. It is embarissing we our in this position really I can not put that in words to emphasis it strongley enough.

It isn't even a case of being offensive, but I know what you mean and agree with the above sentiment.

[Onur]

I think the only two remaining treaties from that era are your Bucharest and Hungary`s Trianon.

Hitler teared up Versailles treaty when he invaded France and burned the train wagon where they signed it in 1919. We teared the Serves treaty to pieces in 1922 but it cost us the lives of more than 500.000 Turkish people between 1919-1922 to achieve this. As you know, Serves was promising for Hellenic, Pontic, Armenian kingdom and Kurdistan in Anatolia.

Hungary`s second favorite party is openly talking about tearing up Trianon and get back their historical lands from Romania where more than million Hungarian lives but you can be sure that no one helps anyone for that, at least not for free. You can only tear that treaty to pieces with war. Obama doesn't help you for this, maybe if you accept a semi-vassal status like Kosovar Albanians and if they think like you can be more valuable to the US than Greece. Ofc this is not possible because Greeks are perfect for that job unless some kind of leftist-anarchist revolution happens in there.