Australian Born Macedonians.

[Risto the Great]

Is this true about what my friend stated about some of our fellow Macedonians in richmond feeling greek or Macedonian when it suits them..?

I am sure many of them have a connection to Greece. Just like many Vardarci have a connection to Jugoslavia. They are Macedonians who have different life experiences. We in Australia are Macedonians who would feel a tinge of Aussie patriotism when we hear the Land Down Under song and see Jennifer Hawkins (or whoever, whatever) holding a vegemite container (or better yet, me ). I think we need to move past that kind of thing and see what binds us together, not what can divide us. It is petty stuff really.

[axil]

Axil, you wouldn't be from Richmond..? as there are allot of Egeci living there...a friend from Richmond who also is from the Agean part of Macedonia says that many there half of the time think their Greek and half the time Macedonian..just when it suits them..

Okay I asked them, they know most if not all of the community here and they said, "No, definitely not."

[Soldier of Macedon]

For what its worth Axil, there are many Greeks that have the the -oglou suffix to their name.

Actually, there is a difference, as the Turkish -oglou suffix wasn't imposed on those Greeks, whereas Greek suffixed surnames were imposed on Macedonians.

[BigMak]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the involvement of religion and the Macedonian orthodox church, without the basic understanding of the Macedonian Language how do 2nd and 3rd generation Macedonians practice religion? Be it veligden (easter) or bozic (Christmas), Modern Macedonian culture circulates around the Macedonian Orthodox Calendar etc... not to mention christenings and weddings. as both these to events have large significant ties to each and everyone's personal customs from region to village, In most circumstances a Macedonian can be identified via these customs and localized to that region or town

The key to this is the continuation of education via our church, cultural groups etc. Assimilation into the main stream is a easy process, not much thought needs to go into it, but to maintain a ethnic consciousness requires work and education.

We have no one else to blame apart from ourselves.

in regards to a surname re-change, I'm not sure how you can feel a tie to a name that was imposed on your family, the true connection should be with the name your four fathers carried and not one of assimilation.

I am not surprised that the above post has been overlooked, this comes down to a few reasons

many Australian (egejci) (dont get me wrong some of you who may get offended as there are plenty of egej Patriots) I am talking about the border/2 world, 2 minds type of people, the greekoman and one of the ethnic Macedonian, my previous post suggests that a ethnic Macedonian of whom practices religion therefore is fluent in Macedonian culture and traditions will remain traditional of sorts while practising Macedonian religion.

A grkoman will prefer to attend greek churches all his life then pass away with a Macedonian orthodox ceremony. I know many of you will say this and that in regards to greek churches and make excuses, but dying at the hand of a greek priest is the lowest form of Macedonian.

How do we educate a ethnic Macedonian who attends greek church, we cannot, a greek church will promote greek culture and agendas therefore branding the Macedonian consciousness void. those of you who stand on the border should be ashamed of yourselves as you have not taken the self initiative for self education.

[Voltron]

Actually, there is a difference, as the Turkish -oglou suffix wasn't imposed on those Greeks, whereas Greek suffixed surnames were imposed on Macedonians.

I dont think it was chosen by us per se. We even have Greek last names that are derived from nicknames. Same manner with the Turkish last names. Oglou means "kids of", ect. No big deal.
The irony of it all is we get slammed for changing toponyms, but we dont find it odd to retain last names that are foreign to us.

cc. Risto, your last name Milankos would not necessarly mean its Greek since it doesnt mean anything in Greek. You can always say your Macedonian if anybody ever asked. If you would of added a "ski" who is to say you wouldnt be asked if you were Polish. Or if you added an "ov" Bulgarian (to the outsider who doesnt know better). Its all relative with how you feel about it I guess. There is a hockey player named Stamkos that is Macedonian. Very simlar name to yours.

[Onur]

I dont think it was chosen by us per se. We even have Greek last names that are derived from nicknames. Same manner with the Turkish last names. Oglou means "kids of", ect. No big deal.

No one ever imposed Turkish names to anyone here. If we would have imposed Turkish names then why there was no Bulgarians, Macedonians, Bosnians, Serbians, Arabs, Romanians, Albanians with -oglou surnames but only exists in Greece??? You know the answer of this question Voltron but you cant admit even to yourself.

There are many Armenians and Greeks in Turkey with only Armenian, Greek sounding names, surnames for centuries. For example, while you can find Jack Papadopulos or Andrew Armen in US, there is no Mehmet Papadopulos or Onur Armen in Turkey because no one imposes Turkish names here unlike EU or US where it`s kinda necessary to use english sounding names for acceptance in to their society.

Btw, it`s not a coincidence that most of the Greeks of Istanbul only had Greek sounding names while the ones from Anatolia had Turkish names and Turkish suffixes like -oglou. The reason is simple; because these people was only speaking Turkish and obviously using Turkish names. As you perfectly know, they weren't Greek at all `till 1924. Also, i know that many -oglou`s changed their surnames with -idis, -lis. So, there was even more -oglou in Greece and most of Greeks with -idis surnames was -oglou b4. They had christian names but with fully Turkish surnames cuz they were Turkish christians.

[Voltron]

Did i say it was imposed? I said in the same manner we obtain nicknames that become our surname. Of course the first name wasnt Turkish, we were talking about surnames. Fyi oglou surnames were in fact in Istanbul as well. I should know since my great grandfather last name ended as such. They were also Greek speaking ethnic Greeks.

Sorry to turn this thread into another Greco/Turkish meltdown, i just dont like to leave misconceptions around.

[Mastika]

Axil, you wouldn't be from Richmond..? as there are allot of Egeci living there...a friend from Richmond who also is from the Agean part of Macedonia says that many there half of the time think their Greek and half the time Macedonian..just when it suits them..

This is exactly what I thought when he said that he was from Kotori. The Macedonian hall there is called Kotori, after the village. There are many events which are attended by younger Macedonians. Easter midnight mass is popular, sredselo at Rockdale Club is frequented well, Macedonian nightclub nights (ie. Evropa club, fb search it), concerts (the Elena and Lambe concert 2 years back was 90% attended by people under 30), Sun and Moon, etc..

Is there still a dancing group operating in Richmond? Last I heard of it was that they argued about who was shouting coffee and the group split up, sounds likely.

[ennea]

Axil,

(1) Though I understand the principle, you’ll find that all women (Macedonian or not) are… evil. You won’t have the chance to choose your life partner, in a sense of conscious and calculated decision. It will just happen, like an earthquake and a tsunami after it.

(2) I don’t know what’s with the Macedonian dances in Australia (I’m in Greece) but I can assure you Bij’s and others’ pessimistic approaches are not correct and the process they describe is reversible and evitable.
I was watching a great documentary about Greek immigrants in Marseilles (2nd, 3rd to 5th or 6th generation). It showed that the first generation was common people who were trying to work hard and survive and didn’t care much about language, identity etc. It was the later educated generations who were rediscovering what it is to be Greek and searching for their roots (most of them were from Chios or Carpathos).

(3) I don’t know what’s Greek about your name (the theme or the suffix). An alternative is to adopt one of your other family names (maternal side or maternal side of your father). All these surnames are equally your family surnames and represent your ancestry. Preferably, you should take the surname of your ancestor you love or admire the most, the one you want to honor the most.

[Risto the Great]

I concur with ennea .... women are evil ... oh so evil.

[Bill77]

I concur with ennea .... women are evil ... oh so evil.

ohhh now you are a sexist

watch those Prosfigi dickheads on that fake Macedonian forum twist your tongue in cheek comment around. lol

[Risto the Great]

ohhh now you are a sexist

As said in Spinal Tap, "what is the matter with being sexy?"

[Bij]

I concur with ennea .... women are evil ... oh so evil.

no denial here

[Dejan]

I remember going to many Macedonian igranki at Richmond as a kid. It was only recently that I found out that there are many Egeici that live in Richmond.

[George S.]

Yeah some women are evil they leave you holding the baby.