Huge uproar in Greece over a tv documentary called 1821 (Greek independance)

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13675

    Originally posted by spitfire View Post
    I don't have to presume what you know since it's been proven that you don't know in the case of "milise".
    It was 5 years ago. I already conceded that I have no desire to pursue that line of thought. You pretend to not read my responses and then waste my time by reverting back to a topic that has no bearing on what is being discussed now, just so you can worm your way out of the difficult spot you've placed yourself in. I have had my fair share of insecure people like yourself who act like they know everything but avoid being held to account for anything. It doesn't impress anyone.
    Instead of trying to bully me, I suggest you start learning greek.
    I am not bullying you, I am trying to keep you honest, something which you find difficult to grasp. Perhaps the environment you're regularly accustomed to hasn't been very challenging for you. Welcome to the real world, where people ask questions.
    Not just any citation, but a citation from a linguist.
    That's usually what happens when discussing linguistics.
    And of course by doing so is denying Homer, Herodotus and as far as the greek mythology if you ask me.
    Only a 'special' individual like yourself could deduce that from this discussion.
    My quote stands.
    Your quote stands for nothing, as your presence on this forum as of now. You will be allowed to return in 7 days if you wish to do so. Google is your friend. Use the time to find some sources from linguists regarding the name 'Hellas'. Here is an example for Italy:
    The assumptions on the etymology of the name "Italia" are very numerous and the corpus of the solutions proposed by historians and linguists is very wide. According to one of the more common explanations, the term Italia, from Latin: Italia, was borrowed through Greek from the Oscan Víteliú, meaning "land of young cattle" (cf. Lat vitulus "calf", Umb vitlo "calf").[29]

    Source [29] J.P. Mallory and D.Q. Adams, Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture (London: Fitzroy and Dearborn, 1997), 24.
    Very simple. Choose to return and press further with your immaturity, and your next holiday will be permanent.
    Originally posted by Philosopher
    To be fair, Spitfire, SoM never wrote you were wrong or that the word Hellas does not mean what you claim it means. He asked for a citation.
    You still don't get it. Your analysis may be right. That is not the issue.

    He is asking for a citation. If you do not have a citation, then state "I do not have a citation and I cannot independently verify the etymology of the word"
    He knows that. He just thought he could keep getting away with being disingenuous. Perhaps he will know better next time. Perhaps not.
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.


    • Dejan
      • Sep 2008
      • 589

      Blagodaram for pulling people like this up SoM. They seem to think theirs is "God's word" and an explanation without evidence will suffice. As yourself and Philosopher mentioned, he may not have been wrong in his assumption, but we cannot assume anything when dealing with greeks, as we can deduct from their track record. I apologise for painting all greeks with the same brush, but actions speak for themselves.

      Also, don't forget, this is a Macedonian forum. What may be acceptable in a greek forum is not necessarily tolerated here. Thank god for that.
      You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

      A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.


      • Amphipolis
        • Aug 2014
        • 1328

        Originally posted by spitfire View Post
        We know that Ἑλλοί (Helloi) were also known as Σελλοί (Selloi) and that they were the people of the area where the mythological son of Defkalion, the Hellene, founded his kingdom. You can also see the same aspirated mark used in Ἑλλοί and the letter that precedes the "E" in the Σελλοί.
        As for the indoeuropean root "swelō", the meaning is glare.
        This part is correct and the opinion that Hellas (as a name) started with Helli/Shelli belongs to Aristotle (in Meteorological Matters).

        Originally posted by spitfire View Post
        Hellas means light and stone. Las is used in other words today as a compound meaning stone. For instance "Latomeio" which broken down is the stone and the incision, and it means the quarry.
        El is written with the aspirated mark of "daseia" meaning that there was another letter preceding "E". The Sigma. In greek "Selini" is the moon, the root is indoeuropean from "swelō". Also "Helios" which means the sun comes from the same root, the indoeuropean "sāwélios". Aurora polaris in greek is "Selas". El is the light.
        The aspirated marks, where introduced during the Hellenistic period, together with the seperation of words and the small letters. The aspirated marks are no longer used since 1980-1981 for simplification.
        This isn't very legitimate, that's why it's not in Wikipedia. I found it widely circulating in the internet but I couldn't find a source, though I'm not sure there isn't any. The opinion is not total crap, I just find it too meaningful and poetic to be true (it reminds me of Elytes). I have several encyclopaedias and lexicons from 1940-60s and this etymological interpretation was not in.


        • Amphipolis
          • Aug 2014
          • 1328

          Originally posted by spitfire View Post
          Why don't you give another explanation then? Let's say that the explanation I gave does not stand up to your standards and give us your explanation.

          It's pretty obvious what the word means, but you'll have to know some greek and how greek work.
          So, here's your chance to give us another explanaton.
          This isn't how it goes "Best explanation takes the award and has to be accepted". It's far from obvious and if it was so obvious an ancient author would have presented the idea and everybody would have accepted it and know it by now.

          EVERY word or name has an etymology, which means that it has an origin; it was formed and evolved somehow. If God-that-knows-all existed, he would just be able to tell us.

          That doesn’t mean that in reality the etymology can be found with certainty with human, scientific means.

          Also it doesn’t mean that it would be important or meaningful


          • Philosopher
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 1003

            I can picture Spitfire fuming now. Well done Amphipolis. Spitfire has a tendency, a proclivity if you will, to propagate rubbish.


            • Liberator of Makedonija
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2014
              • 1597

              This documentary is still very much worth a watch. Gives great incite into what actually happened in the Peloponnese in the 1820s.
              I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.