Huge uproar in Greece over a tv documentary called 1821 (Greek independance)

[Philosopher]

An origin? I'm not so sure. Bouzouki is influenced from both the east and the west. And it became bouzouki when in greece, Asia minor included.

Now let's imagine that in a hundred years from now, the turks so fond of bouzouki, they take the instrument and make minor changes to it in order to fit it more in turkish music. And then they call it tourzouki. Or tourzouk.
Would you say that it's a greek instrument? 'Cause I wouldn't.

Who invented the wheel?

Would you agree or disagree that the instrument was brought from Asia Minor to Greece? And would you agree that this origin of the word is Turkish?

If these things are true, and indeed they are, you cannot deny that this is another example of Turkish influence on Greece.

[spitfire]

Would you agree or disagree that the instrument was brought from Asia Minor to Greece? And would you agree that this origin of the word is Turkish?

If these things are true, and indeed they are, you cannot deny that this is another example of Turkish influence on Greece.

So there weren't any greeks in asia minor?

The turks did not use bouzouki for their music. It was the greeks that used it for their music, rembetika.
The bouzouki is influenced from the mandolin and the lute, also the saz.

And that's not all Philosopher. The succession from a three course to a four course bouzouki is another chapter in the history of the organ.

You can't find any turk doing this with turkish music. There's no way:

Μανώλης Χιώτης Ο Σολίστας - YouTube

[George S.]

The bouzouki (Greek: μπουζούκι pronounced [buˈzuki]; plural: μπουζούκια) is a Greek musical instrument that was brought to Greece in the 1900s by immigrants from Asia Minor, and quickly became the central instrument to the rebetika genre and its music branches.[1] A mainstay of modern Greek music, the front of the body is flat and is usually heavily inlaid with mother-of-pearl. The instrument is played with a plectrum and has a sharp metallic sound, reminiscent of a mandolin but pitched lower. There are two main types of bouzouki. The trichordo (three-course) has three pairs of strings (known as courses), and the tetrachordo (four-course) has four pairs of strings.


The name "bouzouki" comes from the Turkish word "bozuk," meaning "broken" or "modified",[2] and comes from a particular re-entrant tuning called "bozuk d�zen", which was commonly used on its Turkish counterpart, the "saz-bozuk". It is in the same instrumental family as the mandolin and the lute. Originally the body was carved from a solid block of wood, similar to the saz, but upon its arrival in Greece in the early 1910s it was modified by the addition of a staved back borrowed from the Neapolitan mandola, and the top angled in the manner of a Neapolitan mandolins so as to increase the strength of the body to withstand thicker steel strings. The type of the instrument used in Rembetika music was a three-stringed instrument, but in the 1950s a four-string variety was introduced.[3]

History[edit]

Bouzouki in the Museum of Greek Folk Musical Instruments in Athens
The Greek bouzouki is a plucked musical instrument of the lute family, called the thabouras or tambouras family. The tambouras has existed in ancient Greece as pandoura, and can be found in various sizes, shapes, depths of body, lengths of neck and number of strings. The bouzouki and the baglamas are the direct descendants. The Greek marble relief, known as the Mantineia Base (now exhibited at the National Archaeological Museum of Athens), dating from 330-320 BC, shows a muse playing a variant of the pandoura.[4][5]

From Byzantine times it was called pandouras and then tambouras.[6] On display in the National Historical Museum of Greece is the tambouras of a hero of the Greek revolution of 1821, General Makriyiannis.


the tambouras of Yannis Makriyannis in the National Historical Museum, Athens
Other sizes have appeared and include the Greek instrument tzouras, an instrument smaller in size than standard bouzouki.

Following the 1919–1922 war in Asia Minor and the subsequent exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey, the ethnic Greeks fled to Greece. The early bouzoukia were mostly three-string (trichordo), with three courses (six strings in three pairs) and were tuned in different ways, as to the scale one wanted to play.[citation needed] At the end of the 1950s, four-course (tetrachordo) bouzoukia started to gain popularity. The four-course bouzouki was made popular by Manolis Chiotis, who also used a tuning akin to standard guitar tuning, which made it easier for guitarists to play bouzouki, even as it angered purists. The first recording was made in 1958.[citation needed]

The Irish bouzouki, with four courses, a flatter back, and differently tuned from the Greek bouzouki, is a more recent development, stemming from the introduction of the Greek instrument into Irish music by Johnny Moynihan around 1965, and its subsequent adoption by Andy Irvine, Alec Finn, D�nal Lunny, and many others.[7]

The three-course bouzouki (trichordo)[edit]

Greek trichordo bouzouki

A close up of the headstock of a trichordo bouzouki. Two of these eight tuners are not strung.
This is the classical type of bouzouki that was the mainstay of most Rebetiko music. It has fixed frets and it has 6 strings in three pairs. In the lower-pitched (bass) course, the pair consists of a thick wound string and a thin string tuned an octave apart. The conventional modern tuning of the trichordo bouzouki is Dd-aa-dd. This tuning was called the "European tuning" by Markos Vamvakaris, who described several other tunings, or douzenia, in his autobiography. The illustrated bouzouki was made by Karolos Tsakirian of Athens, and is a replica of a trichordo bouzouki made by his grandfather for Markos Vamvakaris and became more famous from Manolis Chiotis. The absence of the heavy mother of pearl ornamentation often seen on modern bouzoukia is typical of bouzoukia of the period. It has tuners for eight strings, but has only six strings, the neck being too narrow for eight. The luthiers of the time often used sets of four tuners on trichordo instruments, as these were more easily available, since they were used on mandolins.[citation needed]

The four-course bouzouki (tetrachordo)[edit]
This type of bouzouki has 8 metal strings, which are arranged in 4 pairs, known as courses, typically tuned Cc Ff aa dd (i.e., one whole step below the four high strings of a guitar). In the two higher-pitched (treble) courses, the two strings of the pair are tuned to the same note. In the two lower-pitched (bass) courses, the pair consists of a thick wound string and a thin string tuned an octave apart. These 'octave strings' add to the fullness of the sound and are used in chords and bass drones (continuous low notes that are played throughout the music). The guitar-like tuning was introduced by composer and soloist Manolis Chiotis, who found it better suited to the kind of virtuoso playing he was famous for. Traditionalists shun the 4-course as they feel it alters the character of the instrument.[citation needed] Many musicians such as the aforementioned Chiotis and Giorgos Zampetas began using specially designed pickups to achieve a slightly thicker humbucker-like sound in the mid-1960s. These pickups are widely used by several Greek artists today and came in active and (usually) passive versions.[citation needed]

The Greek baglamas[edit]
Main article: Baglamas
The Greek baglamas (Greek μπαγλαμάς) or baglamadaki (Greek μπαγλαμαδάκι), is very different from the Turkish bağlama. The treble bouzouki is pitched an octave higher (nominally D-A-D), with unison pairs on the four highest strings and an octave pair on the lower D. Musically, the baglamas is most often found supporting the bouzouki in the Piraeus style of rembetika.

Notable bouzouki players[edit]
Haris Lemonopoulos
Giannis Tatasopoulos
Babis Tsertos
Manolis Hiotis
Vassilis Tsitsanis
Markos Vamvakaris
Nikos Vrachnas
Giorgos Zambetas
Giannis Papaioannou
Iordanis Tsomidis
Kostas Papadοpoulos
Lakis Karnezis
Vangelis Avramakis
Danny Papakalos
Theodoros Kabouridis
Antonis[8]
Alekos Galas
Giorgos Mitsakis
See also[edit]
Greek music
Greek folk music
Laouto, another Greek lute
Stringed instrument tunings
Rebetiko
Laiko
Tzouras
Irish bouzouki
Related Instruments[edit]
Baglamas
Pandura
Mandolin
References[edit]
Jump up ^ "Bouzouki".
Jump up ^ Musical Traditions, Issues 2–4, 1984, p. 19
Jump up ^ "Bouzouki name origin".
Jump up ^ Bouzouki History[unreliable source?]
Jump up ^ instruments-museum, Greece
Jump up ^ Elizabeth Jeffreys, John Haldon, Robin Cormack, The Oxford Handbook of Byzantine Studies, Oxford University Press, 2008, p.928; confer also Nikos Maliaras, Byzantina mousika organa, EPN 1023, ISΒN 978-960-7554-44-4 and Digenis Akritas, Escorial version, vv. 826-827, ed. and transl. Elizabeth Jeffrey.
Jump up ^ Interview with Andy Irvine: http://www.andyirvine.com/disc/interview.html
Jump up ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsWN9NLkm-A
Further reading[edit]
Richards, Tobe A. (2007). The Greek Bouzouki Chord Bible: CFAD Standard Tuning 1,728 Chords. United Kingdom: Cabot Books. ISBN 978-0-9553944-8-5.
External links[edit]
Media related to Bouzoukis at Wikimedia Commons
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[spitfire]

Yes thank you George S. After all that's what turkish music is. Byzantine notes and music ways (dromoi) based on the ΠΑ ΒΟΥ ΓΑ ΔΗ ΚΕ ΖΩ ΝΗ note system, with the addition of tribal rhythm.
The three course bouzouki is of Byzantine tuning.

Rembetika was considered music of the low end, it was banned at some time.

That said, and through the interconnections of cultures and music on both sides of the Aegean, here's one beautiful traditional greek song, that uses a very distincive turkish word "firtina", which is "fourtouna" in greek. It means bad weather/storm. You can absolutely listen how byzantine this is. It's almost like being in the church!

Μαρίζα Κωχ - Στο 'πα και στο ξαναλ�*ω - YouTube

By the use of "firtina", here's how the turks literally love this song. With bouzouki.

orhan osman seni alırsa fırtına - YouTube

[Philosopher]

So there weren't any greeks in asia minor?

The turks did not use bouzouki for their music. It was the greeks that used it for their music, rembetika.
The bouzouki is influenced from the mandolin and the lute, also the saz.

Spitfire, the word "bouzouki" is of Turkish origin (bozuk). I have no doubt Greeks living in Asia Minor emigrated to Greece and brought this instrument. The question is whether this instrument was in use in Greece before it was introduced into Greece from Asia Minor immigrants.

It seems implausible that this instrument was not in use in Asia Minor except by ethnic Greeks.

[spitfire]

Spitfire, the word "bouzouki" is of Turkish origin (bozuk). I have no doubt Greeks living in Asia Minor emigrated to Greece and brought this instrument. The question is whether this instrument was in use in Greece before it was introduced into Greece from Asia Minor immigrants.

It seems implausible that this instrument was not in use in Asia Minor except by ethnic Greeks.

So the what happened to the rembetika played by the turks?
Nobody said that the word isn't turkish. I already posted a greek song that uses a turkish word. Haven't you seen it?
But it's a greek song, not a turkish one. Also, the bouzouki continued its evolution in the hands of the greek with the adoprion of a 4th course.
I also posted the most famous bouzouki player of all times!

This evolution, also made it possible to play in other than byzantine tuning music.

A very good example of this in the use of bouzouki is in the video of Manolis Hiotis. He starts with hasapiko, then goes into byzantine/oriental music and ends up with a... polka!

But I guess you didn't even bother to listen to it.

[Philosopher]

So the what happened to the rembetika played by the turks?
Nobody said that the word isn't turkish. I already posted a greek song that uses a turkish word. Haven't you seen it?
But it's a greek song, not a turkish one. Also, the bouzouki continued its evolution in the hands of the greek with the adoprion of a 4th course.
I also posted the most famous bouzouki player of all times!

This evolution, also made it possible to play in other than byzantine tuning music.

A very good example of this in the use of bouzouki is in the video of Manolis Hiotis. He starts with hasapiko, then goes into byzantine/oriental music and ends up with a... polka!

But I guess you didn't even bother to listen to it.

Spitfire, I do not have the time to listen to or watch every video clip. Thank you for the links, however.

Regardless, I am not sure why we are having this discussion. We would agree that the Balkans has had Turkish influence. We would agree that the bouzouki was brought to Greece from Asia Minor. We agree the origin of the word is Turkish. We agree that Greece, like Macedonia, has been influenced by other Eastern and Western cultures.

[Dejan]

Question about the original video: why the need to revive the hellenes by foreigners (Germans) if there is 'unbroken continuity'?

[Risto the Great]

So there weren't any greeks in asia minor?

The turks did not use bouzouki for their music. It was the greeks that used it for their music, rembetika.
The bouzouki is influenced from the mandolin and the lute, also the saz.

And that's not all Philosopher. The succession from a three course to a four course bouzouki is another chapter in the history of the organ.

You can't find any turk doing this with turkish music. There's no way:

Μανώλης Χιώτης Ο Σολίστας - YouTube

I kept waiting for a fat Greek Elvis Presley to come on stage and take it to the next level.

[Amphipolis]

I kept waiting for a fat Greek Elvis Presley to come on stage and take it to the next level.

Here he is

Aggelakas & oi Episkeptes - Siga min klapsw - YouTube

[Amphipolis]

Question about the original video: why the need to revive the hellenes by foreigners (Germans) if there is 'unbroken continuity'?

What do you mean? Which is the original video?

[spitfire]

I think he means the video of the documentary, Amphipolis. To make a distinction from the latest videos that I posted.

[Dejan]

I think he means the video of the documentary, Amphipolis. To make a distinction from the latest videos that I posted.

Correct spitfire. What are the greek thoughts on this?

[spitfire]

Correct spitfire. What are the greek thoughts on this?

The greek thought is that every participant of the greek culture and education is a greek (Isocrates 436�338 BC).

The thoughts of the greeks for this documentary, apart from the golden dawn members who are unable to think anyway, was that this documentary was exaggerated and biased.

[Dejan]

The greek thought is that every participant of the greek culture and education is a greek (Isocrates 436–338 BC).

Far from the truth though. The statement above shows how unclear the description of 'hellenic' or 'greek' can be. The sky is the limit, basically.

The thoughts of the greeks for this documentary, apart from the golden dawn members who are unable to think anyway, was that this documentary was exaggerated and biased.

Exaggerated how? Biased towards what? Much of the contents of the documentary can easily be found with research.

Being 'greek' has/had no real clear meaning, i think you people just used that angle to your advantage.