Article on Albanians in Macedonia

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  • Mactruth
    Junior Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 91

    Article on Albanians in Macedonia

    I believe this article highlights the frustration of Macedonians. Albanians are free to illegally build mosques in Macedonia (without documents) and build statues of Skanderbeg, but they complain when Macedonians build churches (or museums of historical churches) or statues of Goce and Alexander.

    The better question to ask is who funds all the mosque projects?



    How many building booms can one city take?

    OBELIX, the fat Gaulish friend of cartoon character Asterix, has a catchphrase: "These Romans are crazy!" Walk around Skopje, the Macedonian capital, and you find yourself thinking the same about Macedonians. I don’t mean this to be snide. But the pace of building in and around the city does bring to mind the Mansions of the Gods.

    Skopje has long needed sprucing up. But opponents of Nikola Gruevski, who have long accused the prime minister of populist nationalism, will hardly be dissauded by the nature of the construction boom (which the government has christened Skopje 2014). With an election in the offing, Mr Gruevski will no doubt enjoy taking credit for the new structures mushrooming throughout the city centre.

    In Skopje’s central square a massive plinth is being built. It will soon be topped with a huge statue of Alexander the Great. Many Macedonians could not give a fig for Alexander. But they will be delighted to see the Greeks, who have been blocking Macedonia's EU and NATO integration over an objection to the country's name, turn apoplectic with rage when it is unveiled. The Greeks accuse the Macedonians of appropriating Alexander and trying to steal their Hellenic culture.

    But that is just one element. Museums, domes, a new foreign ministry, a bridge bedecked with statues of lions and, as in the Asterix book, a triumphal arch are all springing up, transforming the centre of town. Some of the buildings suit the landscape, but the new constitutional court (pictured), with its massive Corinthian columns, seems a trifle overpowering.

    Skopje 2014, which we first wrote about last year, has accentuated bitter disputes between the majority Orthodox Macedonians and Muslim Albanians, who make up a quarter of Macedonia's population. Whenever someone suggests building or rebuilding a church in Skopje, the Albanians demand the same for a mosque. Tensions invariably mount.

    The most vivid example brought small groups of Macedonians and Albanians to fisticuffs. Recently, a church-like steel skeleton appeared on the site of an old church inside Skopje's fortress (pictured). The authorities claimed they were merely building a museum in the shape of a church. But Albanians reply that under the original church is an older Illyrian structure; as, they say, they are descended from Illyrians, the site should be theirs. Construction has now stopped, but the issue reveals the delicate balance between Macedonia's two communities, in which religion, identity, land and power are all deeply entwined.

    The erection of statues of historical figures and grandiose public buildings looks like an expression of ethnic Macedonian identity. But they are not the only ones; their structures are merely the most visible to outsiders visiting Skopje's centre. Visit Albanian districts in and around the capital and you come across hundreds of new mosques.

    Macedonia’s Albanians have a reputation of being much more religious than their brethren from Albania or Kosovo. Their mosque-building has even begun to alarm Albanians from Albania, where they have been labelled as "Talibans" in television chat shows.

    Yet the Democratic Union for Integration, a Macedonian Albanian party, which is in coalition with Mr Gruevski, has strictly secular roots. So one wonders whether there is a sub-plot to the mosque-building frenzy. In most cases, a new mosque declares not only the glory of Islam, but that the land on which is stands is Albanian. The paradox is that you can find Albanian-controlled town halls flying American flags a stone’s throw from new mosques sporting Saudi Arabian ones from their minarets.

    This is one reason why the church-museum affair is so touchy. Many Macedonians say they keep quiet about the often illegally-built mosques for the sake of social harmony. That is why it irks them that an attempt to build something that merely resembles a church becomes a huge incident. Albanians, by contrast, see Skopje 2014 and related projects like the church-museum as a project designed to shove “Macedonian-ness” down their throats. To be continued.
  • Niko777
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2010
    • 1895

    #2
    Visit Albanian districts in and around the capital and you come across hundreds of new mosques.


    Macedonia’s Albanians have a reputation of being much more religious than their brethren from Albania or Kosovo. Their mosque-building has even begun to alarm Albanians from Albania, where they have been labelled as "Talibans" in television chat shows.

    In most cases, a new mosque declares not only the glory of Islam, but that the land on which is stands is Albanian. The paradox is that you can find Albanian-controlled town halls flying American flags a stone’s throw from new mosques sporting Saudi Arabian ones from their minarets.


    Many Macedonians say they keep quiet about the often illegally-built mosques for the sake of social harmony. That is why it irks them that an attempt to build something that merely resembles a church becomes a huge incident.

    Comment

    • Onur
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2010
      • 2389

      #3
      I was speaking with a Turkish teacher from Skopje about Albanization issue in Macedonia. She sent me few of her own pics from Debar(if i remember correctly). She told me that last summer, Albanian mayor took a decision to build a new road to her village. Few days later, when they wake up in the morning, they see that the 17th century Ottoman era mosque has been demolished during the nighttime, without any notice and all of sudden. Also there was 10s of old graves beside the mosque, probably from 17-18th century again and they see that they crushed all these graves too and lots of bones was on the ground.

      She told me that lots of Turkish people in town rushed to the mayors bureau to ask how and why this happened. His explanation was that the 17th century mosque was standing on the path of the new road and it had to be demolished to be able to continue the construction and they promise that new mosque will be build there.

      These are some of the pictures;


      Some old gravestones from the demolished graveyard by the old mosque, still lays on the ground after months;




      And this is the new mosque built just few meters away from the old, demolished one. As you can guess, it`s in Wahhabi Arabic style;




      This is just sad. It`s clear that they are creating false reasons, pretenses to demolish these centuries old monuments. I have no doubt anymore that Albanians aiming for total destruction of old Ottoman era mosques and everything related with the Turks and then create a new Albanian+Wahhabi product of new islam in Macedonia. Maybe not all Albanians in Macedonia are involved with this but it`s clear that there are some with an agenda like this.


      Do you guys have any explanation for how come a mayor can decide to demolish 17th century monument all by himself? Dont you have laws and NGOs to protect cultural monuments in Macedonia? Some historical monuments has been destroyed in Turkey too but it`s usually done by giving money to few junkies and tell them to start a fire and burn the place. But not even a mayor can touch any historical monument here. Even if he puts down single nail on it without a permission, then his career as a mayor would be over. It`s something unthinkable. It doesn't matter what was the place, a mosque, a church or whatever. I can give you one example; Japanese and Turkish construction engineers are building underwater highway and a path for subway which will pass bosphorus between Asia and Europe in Istanbul. Two years ago, an ancient seaport discovered right on the path of that project and the construction has been postponed for a year and whole plan has been redesigned. It`s a 2-3 billion dollars worth project but historical monument was more important than that.
      Last edited by Onur; 03-01-2011, 05:53 PM.

      Comment

      • julie
        Senior Member
        • May 2009
        • 3869

        #4
        Onur, that is terrible
        The desecration of graves is unforgivable, and destroying old 17th century monuments to build monstrosities is despicable. Macedonia is one screwed up place, they dont respect themselves, have given the Albanians these rights, and we sit and watch a circus in the diaspora (and get blamed for spitting, my personal favourite)
        Onur, does Turkey support the Albanian movement in Republic Macedonia?
        "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

        Comment

        • Mactruth
          Junior Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 91

          #5
          This is terrible news, seems like Albanians are destroying past-Turkish/Ottoman presence in order to replace it with a new Albanian presence. Albanian Muslims will probably argue these mosques as evidence of their presence since Before Christ, and are probably fulfilling the wishes of their sponsors.

          The Macedonians in the diaspora need to help out more by giving more money to their family back in Macedonia, and hopefully the Macedonians in the Republic will use it wisely. We also need to start making some noise about this through Macedonian diaspora organizations.

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            #6
            Originally posted by Mactruth View Post
            The Macedonians in the diaspora need to help out more by giving more money to their family back in Macedonia, and hopefully the Macedonians in the Republic will use it wisely. We also need to start making some noise about this through Macedonian diaspora organizations.
            Give money.
            Buy shiny mobile phones.
            Vote for Gruevski and his team of Bandits.
            Watch Groundhog Day.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • indigen
              Senior Member
              • May 2009
              • 1558

              #7
              Originally posted by julie View Post
              does Turkey support the Albanian movement in Republic Macedonia?
              YES!!!

              За турската амбасада ИВЗ е наследничка на отоманскиот имот

              Исламската заедница во Македонија може да се смета за наследничка на верската заедница од периодот на Османлиската Империја, а со тоа е и сопственичка на имотот од тој период



              Ова е мислењето што го добивме од Амбасадата на Р. Турција во Македонија на прашањето дали ИВЗ може да се смета за наследничка на отоманските објекти на територијата на земјава. Турската заедница во Македонија, се вели во одговорот од амбасадата, позитивно ги прифаќа побарувањата на ИВЗ да им се врати земјиштето за време на турското владеење на овие простори, кое било национализирано во 1948 година.


              - ИВЗ без прекин учествува во верскиот живот и правилно е себеси да се гледа како наследничка на верската заедница од времето на Отоманската Империја, зашто има континуитет на сопственоста на тој имот - одговара во краткото писмено соопштение Бахаетин Билдик, советник за верски прашања во турската амбасада.

              Изминатиот период во јавноста имаше поделени реакции по ова прашање. Некои експерти сметаа дека ИВЗ не може да полага право на наследство врз џамиите и вакафите од Отоманската Империја, зашто тие се споменици на културата и како дел од националното богатство на државата подлежат на посебна заштита.

              Од ИВЗ, пак, беа децидни дека не се гледаат како наследници на државниот имот од отоманското време, туку на верските објекти и на имотот што бил подаруван за потребите на џамиите. Во Исламската верска заедница, исто така, потенцираа и дека Законот за денационализација не бара континуитет или историјат, туку тапии, а тие имаат тапија од Кралството Југославија дека се сопственици на Капан-ан, кој бил одземен од ИВЗ во 1948 година.

              број 21981 | среда 12.5.2010



              Thus those who see Turkey as "OUR GREAT FRIEND" should have a serious review of that attitude, IMHO!
              Last edited by indigen; 03-01-2011, 10:05 PM.

              Comment

              • Big Bad Sven
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2009
                • 1528

                #8
                Originally posted by Mactruth View Post




                Macedonia’s Albanians have a reputation of being much more religious than their brethren from Albania or Kosovo. Their mosque-building has even begun to alarm Albanians from Albania, where they have been labelled as "Talibans" in television chat shows.
                I personally would put the ghegs from "kosova" into the same group as the ghegs in macedonia - they are both "talibans". Simple minded, inbred fanatical muslims.

                My personal belief is that even though i dont like tosks and at the end of the day nationalist tosks are just as bad as the rest of our neighbors, tosks are MUCH more better people then the ghegs and also much more civilized. Im guessing its because tosks have a more european/catholic/orthodox way of life whilst the barbaric and backwards gheg has been living in the mountains all his life and following tribal law, and now are fanatical whabi muslims - the worst type of religion there is in my book.

                Macedonians who go to Albania for holidays are treated generously and with lots of hospitality by tosks, yet ironically macedonians feel like they are in a foreign land when in tetovo and treated like shit by the whahabi ghegs. I think that says it all.

                Comment

                • fyrOM
                  Banned
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 2180

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mactruth View Post
                  The Macedonians in the diaspora need to help out more by giving more money to their family back in Macedonia, and hopefully the Macedonians in the Republic will use it wisely.
                  So they can go to Greece on holiday and maybe have a look at Spain just to compare the beeches…maybe your relos are better than mine.

                  Only one of the many reasons Macedonians cannot get organized.

                  The diaspora should be able to advance Macedonia like they did in Israel but one had has a common goal and the other has two pockets.

                  Another reason is a lack of imagination…and maybe trust. A Macedonian diaspora group should have at least looked at setting up their own virtual mobile and internet company and rates comparison…interest rates energy rates…site. We have organisations like the human rights organization that probably can be trusted and we have bright Macedonians in the fields of law computer programming and business. Could we not have gotten in early in these areas not just servicing Macedonians…although they would have formed a solid base to start from…but the wider Australian community and earned a dollar or two to be used for the betterment of Macedonia.
                  Last edited by fyrOM; 03-02-2011, 01:35 AM.

                  Comment

                  • fyrOM
                    Banned
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 2180

                    #10
                    Во 2001 имаше одлично планирана и врвно организирана војна





                    Скопје, 4 март 2011 (МИА) - Во 2001 година на Македонија и се случи одлично планирана и врвно организирана војна, предвидена да не прерасне во Балканска војна, во која од првиот момент постоеше конфузија за тоа дали е надлежна полицијата или АРМ, се преземаа активности во интерес на поединци од тогашните политички елити, а премногу важни материи беа водени од лаици советници. Лекциите и по 10 години не се научени, се уште не е смирена тензијата меѓу Македонците и Албанците, додека Охридскиот рамковен договор е преширок за Македонците, а претесен за Албанците.

                    Ова се главните тези искажани од учесниците на научно-стручната дебата насловена „Македонија 2001-2011, Научени лекции и премолчени вистини“ што се одржа денеска во Домот на АРМ во Скопје, во организација на Форумот за безбедност и Здружението на ветерани од одбраната и безбедноста на Република Македонија.

                    Заедничка беше констатацијата дека на Македонија и е потребен ефикасен систем за превенција, повисоко ниво на политичка култура и заедничка визија за иднината на земјата.

                    Љубчо Георгиевски, поранешен премиер, оцени дека во 2001 година на Македонија и се случи класична војна за територија, за делови од Република Македонија.

                    - Едната страна беше Македонија, а втората страна Косово, како протекторат на ОН во тоа време, но не и Албанија која многу воздржано се однесуваше во таа ситуација, рече тој. Кога се поставува прашањето дали Македонија беше доволно информирана, според Георгиевски, не треба да се амнестираат и потребно е да се даде одговор зошто тогаш не се добиени благовремени информации од силите на ОН, на ЕУ, на НАТО и ОБСЕ кои беа на македонско-косовската граница и на територијата на Косово. Георгиевски призна дека цело време се водела дискусија кој треба да интервенира дали војската или полицијата, за што и неуставно била употребена Армијата, а тоа било причината и тој да побара прогласување воена состојба и согласно Уставот да може да биде употребена и АРМ.

                    Јанко Бачев тврди дека тајните служби на Македонија уште во 2000-та година имале точни информации за бројот и местоположбата на терористичките формации. За него, поразителни биле ситуациите кога во тој момент се извршила, како што рече, „кадровска диверзија со реформи на тајните служби“, а од премиерот се криеле информации. Обвини и за некомпетентни советници на претседателот на државата и тотално промашување на македонската надворешна политика.

                    Во реплика на Бачев, Георгиевски меѓу другото нагласи дека меѓународната заедница никогаш на Македонија не и дала дозвола да ги решава проблемите со сопствени средства.

                    - Секогаш имаше конкретен притисок. Ниту една операција на воените и полициските сили не беше поддржана од меѓународната заедница. Напротив, тој притисок и телефонските јавувања беа постојани. На полициската структура тој притисок го правеа дипломати, а за армиските генерали имаше друга структура. Сите акции беа преземени на сопствена одговорност и после многу задршки, тврди тогашниот премиер Георгиевски.

                    По излагањето на Бачев, со остра реплика се одзва и Абедин Зумбери, поранешен командант на ОНА и актуелен пратеник, кој беше единствениот кој се појави на форумот од поканетите поранешни функционери и учесници на ОНА.

                    - Со какви било војни не можете да ги победите Албанците. Да продолжеше војната, не знам дали сега ќе постоеше Македонија. Ако јас сум бил терорист ти досега немаше да постоиш, му се обрати Зумбери на Бачев. Бачев му одговори дека имале среќа што во тој период на чело на државата бил политичар како претседателот Борис Трајковски, во спротивно нивната група од, посочи, помалку од 700 члена би била решена за многу кратко време. По бурната расправа и довикување, што ги вознемири сите присутни, модераторот за да ја смири тензијата даде пауза.

                    Претходно Зумбери, во обраќањето истакна дека 2001 година треба да биде поука за сите граѓани на Република Македонија. За него, и по 10 години се чувствуваат последиците, но еднаш засекогаш треба да се донесе решение и да живееме заеднички. - Јас никогаш не сум се борел против македонскиот народ. Тогаш се кренавме против тогашната власт која не му даде права на албанскиот народ, рече тој.

                    Стојанче Ангелов, претседател на „Достоинство“ и учесник во 2001 година од безбедносните сили меѓу другото му порача на Зумбери, да му пренесе на неговиот лидер Имер Селмани да престане со популистички национализам затоа што тоа не е добро за државата.

                    И за Горан Митевски, поранешен директор на Управата за безбедност и контраразузнавање и на Јавната безбедност, во 2001 година имало воена агресија од Косово. Оваа негова теза тој ја образложи со тоа што имале информации дека 16 лица од Косовскиот заштитен корпус учествуваат во планирање активности во Македонија.

                    - Според статистиките на МВР тогаш, процентот на припадници на КЗК на самиот почеток во Македонија беше 90 проценти, за на крајот по потпишувањето на Рамковниот договор да биде 40 проценти војници од Косово и 40 отсто Албанци од Македонија, рече Митевски, додавајќи оти за целиот период на кризата се случувала мобилизација најчесто присилна на Албанци во Македонија. Контингентот на НАТО во пограничниот дел на Косово во близина на Дебалде, тврди тој, не само што не ги спречувал припадниците на КЗК, туку им дал и одредена логистика слободно да се шетаат и да влегуваат на територија на Македонија.

                    Според Илија Николовски, генерал-мајор во пензија, во 2001 година се почна како борба за територија, но бидејќи изостана поддршката од меѓународната заедница, потенцира, по Призренската декларација, барањата се дефинираа како барања за човекови права.

                    Генералот во пензија Тодор Атанасовски настаните од 2001 година ги дефинира како оружен внатрешен конфликт со најнизок интензитет, во текот на кој сите соседни претенденти дисциплинирано стоеја на границите благодарение на меѓународниот фактор, иако, нагласи, имаа свои стратегии на истурена одбрана. Тој смета дека во учеството на политичарите во научната расправа може само да има лимитирачки фактор.

                    Амбасадорот Виктор Габер говореше за недоволното ангажирање, неефикасната дипломатија, и, како што рече, неефикасноста на медиумите.

                    За професорката Билјана Ванковска, по 2001 година научивме да бидеме политички коректни односно лицемерни. Таа потенцира дека нема помирување без соочување, треба да се извадат на површина сите вистини кои ќе не вознемират. - Македонија е федерација, но нема кој тоа да и го каже гласно, смета Ванковска.

                    Според Иван Бабановски, поранешен припадник на безбедносните сили, најголеми губитници во 2001 година беа Македонците и Албанците. Тој констатира дека е „перверзија од меѓународната заедница“ перманентно да стои зад измислениот декор, како што рече, за заштита на човекови права, иако тогаш, имаше уфрлено лица во Македонија за организирана агресија од друга држава.

                    На попладневната сесија, се очекува да дискутираат и Ризван Сулејмани, Мерсел Биљали, како и Зоран Јовановски полицискиот генерал учесник во 2001 година.

                    Google Traslation

                    In 2001 there were well planned and highly organized war

                    Skopje, March 4, 2011 (AP) - In 2001 in Macedonia and came well planned and highly organized war, provided you do not grow into a Balkan war, in which the first moment there was confusion about whether it is competent police or Army, have taken activities in the interests of individuals from the then political elites, and too many important matters were led by laymen advisors. Lessons and 10 years are taught, is still not calm tensions between Macedonians and Albanians, while the Ohrid Framework Agreement is too wide for the Macedonians and the Albanians too small.

                    These are the main theses of the participants expressed the scientific expert debate titled "Macedonia 2001-2011, Lessons Learned and silent truths" held today at the Army Hall in Skopje, organized by the Security Forum and the Association of veterans from the defense and security Republic of Macedonia.

                    General conclusion was that Macedonia needs an effective system of prevention, a higher level of political culture and a common vision for the future of the country.

                    Ljupco Georgievski, former prime minister, estimates that in Macedonia in 2001 and came a classic turf war, parts of Macedonia.

                    - One side was Macedonia and the second by Kosovo as a UN protectorate at the time, but not very discreet Albania that behave in that situation, he said. When the question whether Macedonia was sufficiently informed, according to Georgievski, should not be amnesty and we need to answer why not received timely information from the UN force, EU, NATO and the OSCE were the Macedonian-Kosovo border and the territory of Kosovo. Georgievski conceded that all the time led a discussion that needs to intervene if the army or police, which was used unconstitutionally Army, which caused him to seek and declaring martial law and under the Constitution can be used and ARM.

                    Janko Bachev claims that the secret services of Macedonia since 2000, had accurate information about the number and location of terrorist formations. For him, were dire situations when that point is committed, he said, "diversion of personnel reform the secret services" and from Prime Minister is hiding information. Blame incompetent advisers President and a total failure of the Macedonian foreign policy.

                    In response to Bachev, among other things Georgievski stressed that the international community in Macedonia has never not given permission to solve problems with their own funds.

                    - Always had a specific pressure. No operation of military and police forces backed by the international community. Rather, the pressure and phone calls were constant. The police structure that pressure did diplomats, and army generals had another structure. All actions were taken at own risk after many deductions, claimed then-Prime Minister Georgievski.

                    Mon Bachev the report, with a sharp replica odzva and Zumberi Abedin, a former KLA commander and current lawmaker who was the only one who appeared on the forum of the invited participants and former officials of the NLA.

                    - In any war you can not beat the Albanians. To continue the war, I do not know whether there will now Macedonia. If I was ever a terrorist you would not exist, he addressed the Zumberi Bachev. Bachev replied they had been lucky in that period, the head of state was a politician as President Boris Trajkovski, otherwise their group, said, fewer than 700 members would be resolved very shortly. Mon roaring debate and calling, which upset everyone, the moderator to calm the tension a break.

                    Zumberi Earlier in his address said that 2001 should be a lesson to all citizens of Macedonia. For him, and after 10 years to feel the consequences, but once should be a decision to live together. - I've never fought against the Macedonian people. Then rose up against the then government that does not give rights to the Albanian people, "he said.

                    Stojance Angelov, president of Dignity "and participant in 2001 by security forces, among other things told Zumberi to convey to his leader Imer Selmani stop with the populist nationalism because it is not good for the country.

                    And Goran Mitevski, a former director of the Security and Intelligence and Public Safety, in 2001 there were military aggression in Kosovo. This his thesis, he explained that it had information that 16 persons from the Kosovo Protection Corps participate in planning activities in Macedonia.

                    - According to MOI statistics, then, the percentage of members of the CPC at the outset in Macedonia was 90 percent, eventually signing of the Framework Agreement to be 40 percent of soldiers and 40 percent of Kosovo Albanians from Macedonia, Mitevski said, adding that the entire period of crisis occurred mostly involuntary mobilization of Albanians in Macedonia. NATO contingent in the border of Kosovo near Debalde, he argued, not only has prevented members of the CPC, but they gave a logistics free to walk around and enter the territory of Macedonia.

                    According Ilija Nikolovski Major General retired in 2001, began as a struggle for territory, but was left out because support from the international community, said after the Prizren Declaration, the requirements are defined as requests for human rights.

                    Retired Gen Todor Atanasovski events of 2001 defines as an internal armed conflict with the lowest intensity, during which all neighboring contenders disciplinary standing at the borders due to international factor, though, pointed out, had their own strategies of Defense dispatched. He believes in the participation of politicians in the scientific debate can only be a limiting factor.

                    Ambassador Viktor Gaber spoke of insufficient engagement, poor diplomacy, and, as I said, the inefficiency of the media.

                    For Professor Biljana Vankovska after 2001 learned to be politically correct or hypocritical. She emphasized that there is no reconciliation without confrontation, should be removed to the surface all the truths that will not disturb them. - Macedonia is a federation, but there is no one to say loudly and considers Vankovska.

                    According to Ivan Babanovski, a former security official, the biggest losers in 2001 were Macedonians and Albanians. He concluded that "perversion of the international community to permanently behind fictional decor, he said, for the protection of human rights, although it had ufrleno people in Macedonia organized aggression by another state.

                    The afternoon session is expected to discuss and Rizvan Sulejmani Mersel Biljali, and Police General Zoran Jovanovski participant in 2001.

                    Comment

                    • George S.
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 10116

                      #11
                      Onur these people haveno respect for the turks or the macedonians & seem to be doing what they like.There is not a thing the govt can do,
                      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                      GOTSE DELCEV

                      Comment

                      • George S.
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 10116

                        #12
                        Onur what do you think of that the turkish govt supports the albanian movement in macedonia.What do you think of that?.
                        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                        GOTSE DELCEV

                        Comment

                        • Onur
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2010
                          • 2389

                          #13
                          I`ve never heard that Turkish government directly supports Albanians in Macedonia. At least i don't have any information about that.

                          If you were talking about Indigen`s link, i tried to understand what it says with google translate. It seems like some guy who are responsible from religious affairs in Turkish embassy says that ICM(Macedonian muslim community?) is a successor of the Ottoman era monuments. If this is what he has been said, then i believe this is a wrong statement cuz every monument should belong to the Macedonian state, doesn't matter if it`s a mosque or not. ICM can only consider themselves as a responsible for the protection of these monuments. If this ICM is an Albanian only NGO, then the guy in Turkish embassy trusts wrong people about the protection of these monuments.

                          Albanian treatment to the Ottoman era mosques is known in Turkey tough. As i posted a msg here b4, there was articles about the destruction of Arasta mosque by Albanians in Turkish newspaper columns;

                          Look what was happening in Kumanovo this week: Albanians in Macedonia have way too many rights, and I believe these rights will endanger the sovereignty and unity of Macedonia. Albanian nationalism in Macedonia has been rising since 2001 thanks to that stupid framework agreement. Now every year on November 28

                          Comment

                          • Bill77
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 4545

                            #14
                            Originally posted by George S. View Post
                            Onur these people haveno respect for the turks or the macedonians & seem to be doing what they like.There is not a thing the govt can do,
                            George, why are you defending Gruevski? say it now, go on tell us, do you like Gruevski?????? why are you defending the ventilator?

                            What do you mean there is nothing the Gov can do?
                            za grevota si.
                            http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                            Comment

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