Human Rights documents for Macedonians in Greece

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Mactruth
    Junior Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 91

    Human Rights documents for Macedonians in Greece

    This "name issue" is not about a name, itís about deeper issues, which Greece cannot and does not want exposed: the Macedonian minority in Greece and the partition of Macedonia, which was scolded upon by the nationally awakening Macedonians at that time. The Macedonian minority is being suppressed through intimidation and fear, in which Greece believes elimination or forced assimilation of native inhabitants can finally make Macedonia only Greek:

    1) The ethnic Macedonian minority in Greece as shown by the Eurominority: http://www.eurominority.org/version/...p-nations2.asp

    2) HELLENIC REPUBLIC Top secret document advocating Macedonian cultural genocide within Greece - Feb 16, 1982
    Unlimited space to host images, easy to use image uploader, albums, photo hosting, sharing, dynamic image resizing on web and mobile.


    3) Hellenism in the Near East - G. Soteriadis 1918, London http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7...areastgfb4.jpg

    4) Greece denies there is a Macedonian ethnicity, Macedonian language and Macedonian minority within Greece:


    5)Harvard Encyclopedia of American Ethnic Groups - 1980


    6) Greek government bans ethnic Macedonian cultural centre being built in Greece (why ban it if there's no Macedonians in Greece to build it?):


    7) USA: Greece still does not recognize Macedonian minority http://www.makfax.com.mk/look/novina...6&NrSection=20

    8) Denying ethnic Identity - The Macedonians of Greece - Human Rights Watch Greece:

    A quote from the series: "Although ethnic Macedonians in northern Greece make up a large minority with their own language and culture, their internationally-recognized human rights and even their existence are vigorously denied by the Greek government. Free expression is restricted; several Macedonians have been prosecuted and convicted for the peaceful expression of their views. Moreover, ethnic Macedonians are discriminated against by the government's failure to permit the teaching of the Macedonian language. And ethnic Macedonians, particularly rights activists, are harassed by the government ó followed and threatened by security forces ó and subjected to economic and social pressures resulting from this harassment. All of these actions have led to a marked climate of fear in which a large number of ethnic Macedonians are reluctant to assert their Macedonian identity or to express their views openly."

    9) The UN in 2009 "asks" Greece to recognize the Macedonian minority in Greece, following an independent report by Gay McDougall


    10) Council of Europe in 2010 argues Greece to recognize the Macedonian minority in Greece, and give them human rights protection


    11) 2009 Human Rights Report of Greece, some quotes
    "The courts did not allow the registration of nonprofit associations of nationals who claimed to be of Macedonian ethnic origin, charging that the founders of such groups were seeking to undermine the country's territorial integrity and cultural identity"
    "The government did not recognize the existence of a Slavic dialect, called "Macedonian" by its speakers, spoken in the northwestern area of the country. However, a small number of Slavic speakers insisted on identifying themselves as "Macedonian," a designation that generated strong opposition from other citizens."
    " The independent expert found that those identifying themselves as ethnic Macedonians still reported discrimination and harassment. Representatives of this minority claimed that they were denied the right to freedom of association, citing unsuccessful efforts since 1990 to register the organization Home of Macedonian Culture in Florina."


    please add to the list
  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    #2
    how about the sending of neo nazi bullies to beat up professor Friedman when he tried to produce the macedonian greek dictionary.How about back in 1925 in regards to the ABCEDAR Primer where greece recognized the need to teach it's macedonian minority macedonian. but later changed it's mind.When the srbs & bulgarians found out that greece was asked to introduce the primer they became jealous & quarrelsome as to why they weren't asked to do it for their minorities.
    Mactruth well done there are quite a number of examples i'm sure readers can bring up.Legislation forbidding this & that & also greek officials in government recognising the macedonian population even.
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • Voltron
      Banned
      • Jan 2011
      • 1362

      #3
      Greece's "minorities" are defined by the Laussane treaty with Turkey. It is not specific against the Macedonians. And after what we saw happen with Kosovo, I doubt it will change any time soon. Unless the Balkans finally stabalise completely. Probably the reason why Greece is pushing for all Balkan countries to enter the EU in 2014.
      Last edited by Voltron; 01-28-2011, 04:01 PM.

      Comment

      • Vangelovski
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 8533

        #4
        Originally posted by Voltron View Post
        Greece's "minorities" are defined by the Laussane treaty with Turkey.
        Do you even kow what that means?

        The fact that Greece has some idiotic treaty does not mean that minorities do not exist within its current borders, nor does it abrogate their responsibility to protect their human rights, which are INALIENABLE.
        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

        Comment

        • Voltron
          Banned
          • Jan 2011
          • 1362

          #5
          human individual rights are inalienable, not collective rights

          Comment

          • Voltron
            Banned
            • Jan 2011
            • 1362

            #6
            I like your sig Vangelovski, John Adams.
            Im a liberatarian and I dont buy into the "minority" bandwagon. Its a failed concept.

            Comment

            • Mactruth
              Junior Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 91

              #7
              Hi George, I believe there are additional human rights violations in here:


              People need to make fellow Macedonians aware of these issues, since these events are rapidly deleted by Greek and Bulgarian users on Wikipedia.

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8533

                #8
                Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                I like your sig Vangelovski, John Adams.
                Im a liberatarian and I dont buy into the "minority" bandwagon. Its a failed concept.
                What minority bandwagon? The human rights, or natural rights, that I was referring to are individual. This is exactly what Greece is violating. Individual natural rights to freedom of conscious (or freedom of thought), freedom of expression and freedom of association. Denying Macedonians the ability to self-identity as they see fit and to associate with others as they see fit is a direct violation of natural law.

                Further, Macedonians, like all people, have an inalienable right to self-determination, that is, as free individuals to join with others to form a political community to decide their own affairs for themselves.

                Being a "libertarian", you should be familiar with these concepts.
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • Voltron
                  Banned
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 1362

                  #9
                  Affirmative, they do have the right to affiliate politically and express their culture as they see fit.
                  The right to congregate is not obstructed, im sure your familiar with Rainbow party. Hell, we even have the Greens (Tremopoulos). What else do you want?
                  Individual liberty to self determination or self identity is a non issue. Come see for yourself. Anything else is seccesionist IMO.
                  Last edited by Voltron; 01-28-2011, 06:14 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Vangelovski
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 8533

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Voltron View Post
                    Affirmative, they do have the right to affiliate politically and express their culture as they see fit.
                    The right to congregate is not obstructed, im sure your familiar with Rainbow party. Hell, we even have the Greens (Tremopoulos). What else do you want?
                    Individual liberty to self determination or self identity is a non issue. Come see for yourself. Anything else is seccesionist IMO.
                    Everything you just wrote is a complete distortion of the facts on the ground. What about the numerous Macedonian organisations that have been refused registration or the many Macedonian individuals who have been refused permission to change their legal names to their former Macedonian (i.e., non-hellenised) names? How about the fact that Greece refuses to recognise their Macedonian identity, even on an individual basis?

                    Further, claiming that the right to freedom of association is not violated in Greece and then claiming that the right to self-determination for those who have decided to exercise it on a collective basis is seccesionist (as something negative) is a complete contradiction. What kind of a "libertarian" are you?
                    Last edited by Vangelovski; 01-28-2011, 08:37 PM.
                    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                    Comment

                    • Mactruth
                      Junior Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 91

                      #11
                      Typical Greek response, no matter how much evidence you show they are in complete denial about the situation and only believe what is told by their church. It's like their view on the detsa begalci: instead of listening to their words of mistreatment the Greeks twist it into "they were STOLEN Greeks who were brainwashed by the evil Skopjans". All these Human Rights organizations speaks louder then their lies and show exactly what is going on in Greece
                      Last edited by Mactruth; 01-28-2011, 11:28 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Voltron
                        Banned
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 1362

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                        Everything you just wrote is a complete distortion of the facts on the ground. What about the numerous Macedonian organisations that have been refused registration or the many Macedonian individuals who have been refused permission to change their legal names to their former Macedonian (i.e., non-hellenised) names? How about the fact that Greece refuses to recognise their Macedonian identity, even on an individual basis?

                        Further, claiming that the right to freedom of association is not violated in Greece and then claiming that the right to self-determination for those who have decided to exercise it on a collective basis is seccesionist (as something negative) is a complete contradiction. What kind of a "libertarian" are you?
                        Vangelovski, allow me to answer your question with a Ron Paul excerpt.

                        "Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals..."

                        "By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is inherently racist..."

                        "We should understand that racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty."

                        Trust me when I say that individual liberty exists here in Greece and nobody has a problem speaking or declaring themselves Macedonian.
                        Everything else is political and based on "segregation" or "seccesionist" tendencies.

                        "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG_HuFtP8w8" @ 6:35

                        Just shows how stupid America is for letting this man go.
                        Last edited by Voltron; 01-29-2011, 02:38 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Voltron
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 1362

                          #13
                          Regarding changing of names, I explained to Daskalot that I changed my name on my Greek ID to be the same as my Anglosized name in the US. Im wondering, did anybody try lately and was rejected ?

                          Comment

                          • Vangelovski
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 8533

                            #14
                            Voltron,

                            There have been many reports of MACEDONIANS been refused to change their names back to the original MACEDONIAN. I am more inclined to believe the various international human rights organisations that someone who clearly does not know what they're on about.

                            Seeing as you think we should stop thinking in terms of “groups” and start thinking in terms of “individual liberty”, WHY is it that you feel we need to do so within the framework of “Greece”? Why should “Greece” as a state even exist?
                            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                            Comment

                            • Voltron
                              Banned
                              • Jan 2011
                              • 1362

                              #15
                              Im just asking if someone tried lately. I mean cant someone give it a shot and post the results here ? Unless of course its too much of a hassle. I did it and it took me 6 months. I forgot to ask, are they Greek citizens with a Greek name ? Or they are not citizens ? Human Rights Organizations, please...same people that created Kosovo. Yet the Albanians are out there selling organs like its a flea market and nothing is being done.

                              Vangelovski, I dont know if you have any interest whats so ever to come to Greece. If by chance you ever do. See for yourself, you might find out its not so bad.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X