Turkish Soap Operas Take Balkans by Storm

[Soldier of Macedon]

Can you please analyse your logic further using in a clear way the above exploratory questions (why, when, where, how) ?
And to make it things simple for both of us can you please start by writting a short sentence first as an answer to each question? and then we move on to more detail, explanation etc.

Is there something you're disputing with regard to the development of the 'Hellenic' identity of the majority of refugees?

How it happened - Greek state and church sponsored propaganda
Why it happened - So the Greek state can assimilate foreign populations and increase their own 'numbers'
When it happened - From the 1920's
Where it happened - in the Greek state

Before that, they were all Romaioi of varying ethnic and linguistic backgrounds.

I have seen his name when I read something in maknews forum but I know nothing about him. What I remember about him is that he is from Greece and his avatar pic of Nescafe Frape.

How perceptive. How long have you been hovering around the forums without having signed up? Or are you a former banned member? Excuse the direct approach, but we like to have an idea with the character of people we interact with. If you feel uncomfortable with my line of questioning you can lay the blame squarely on your fellow countrymen who have repeatedly entered this forum under false pretences and have evolved into racist maggots within a dozen or so posts.

Thank you SoM. I hope you don’t expect me to agree with everything stored there.

Not at all. I don't expect this from my Greek friends either, their acceptance of Alexander as a Macedonian and not a Greek, for example, is not a pre-condition to our friendship. However, moving from history to human rights - their acceptance of my people and identity most certainly is a requirement. They are still proud Greeks, and this acceptance hasn't killed them. Unfortunately, such Greeks are a minority. We have had a couple here in the past, one was named Alki, the other Spartan, they haven't frequented for a while though.

I think I understand how you feel since there there might occasions where I have some similar feelngs, although the older I get the less I feel them which I think is good thing. Many Greeks feel like you......

Then you have no idea or understanding about how Macedonians feel, because they don't 'feel' it for the same reasons that some Greeks do. Like I said earlier, we can discuss the historical aspect where it concerns antiquity, the middle ages, etc, however, the ties to Macedonia that modern Greeks have are essentially geographic, for Macedonians, it is geographic, national, ethnic, linguistic and cultural.

Now, personally I just want the whole issue to be solved asap whatever the outcome.

A weak response from the sideline, surely made to avoid further inquiry. Your state has no right to dictate terms to mine. Period.

[Petros]

Is there something you're disputing with regard to the development of the 'Hellenic' identity of the majority of refugees?

How it happened - Greek state and church sponsored propaganda
Why it happened - So the Greek state can assimilate foreign populations and increase their own 'numbers'
When it happened - From the 1920's
Where it happened - in the Greek state

Before that, they were all Romaioi of varying ethnic and linguistic backgrounds.

I can respond better to certain kinds of questions and propositions when they are clearly put, and as I had a fast read you do it nicely throughout this reply. I generally agree but I have two objections:

a) Question When: I would say a lot earlier, at least a century before, if you want to observe it directly. I think “Megali Idea” was firstly conceived by the Phanariotes and especially Rigas Feraios which his “Thourios” poem called for something like a “Balkan Federation” based on “Romjiosini”.

I think Feraios also promoted the idea of a Greece of the 5 or 7 seas (I don’t remember very well, I’ ll have to check, anyway...), which implies the borders of a “Great=Megali Ellada” and which I think was the base of the “Megali Idea”.


Also Romjios=Greek Orthodox Christian, is different than Romaios=Roman Catholic Christian. For example those places that were under Venezian and not Ottoman rule, changed their Romjiosini for Catholicism. They are Greeks but Catholics so i.e. not Romjii (= plural of Romjios). Yet they have the same etymology and they both denote Roman citizenship rights. At those times to be a Roman citizen was the equivalent of the modern US citizen. An example of this can be found even in the Bible where St Paul who was a Jew also held Roman citizenship and this saved him from trouble in some occasions.


b) Question Where: Only in the Greek state? & only after the creation of Greek state? The Phanariotes are well known for conceiving their secret society far away from the Greek mainland in what is now Ukraina (Oddessa???) much earlier than 1921 Greek appraising. They also acted mostly outside the Greek mainland.


Anyway, if you want this conversation to continue I have no problem but the more general is your questions or propositions the more general will be my replies also. For more specific replies I need more specific questions and put as clearly as possible.

Btw these views I present here apart from being general there are how I generally remember things and not from direct sources. But if you want I can find some relevant links and post.

How perceptive. How long have you been hovering around the forums without having signed up? Or are you a former banned member? Excuse the direct approach, but we like to have an idea with the character of people we interact with. If you feel uncomfortable with my line of questioning you can lay the blame squarely on your fellow countrymen who have repeatedly entered this forum under false pretences and have evolved into racist maggots within a dozen or so posts.

I’ve been reading for years and so I got to learn some of the main arguments, writers, actors and fighters. I usually go to maknews for the resources offered, like the direct google link for up to date news for Macedonia, and the various other news and media links and meaterial. I particularly like the Macedonian language resources as well as the music.


So far I had no time and also no motivation for participating in forum discussions, not only for the Macedonian issue but also generally for any issue in any forum.
Although I plan to register in maknews also, I registered here first because MTO forum looks to me more oriented towards member debate, whereas I find maknews more oriented towards offering media sources on Macedonia, and also because I think the main maknews members can be found here also. This answers your 2nd question also.


There is no need to apologise at all. After so much reading I thought I knew what to expect when I signed up. I was expecting direct aggressive attacks and high suspicion. To my surprise I was so wrong. Everybody here welcomed me and treated me with respect just like in Macedonian, maybe because is Holly days and out of politeness and happy mood, or maybe because I also respect your Macedonian identity and status. Your level of suspicion is nothing compared to what I was expecting, i fala mnogy na site za toa.

Not at all. I don't expect this from my Greek friends either, their acceptance of Alexander as a Macedonian and not a Greek, for example, is not a pre-condition to our friendship. However, moving from history to human rights - their acceptance of my people and identity most certainly is a requirement. They are still proud Greeks, and this acceptance hasn't killed them. Unfortunately, such Greeks are a minority. We have had a couple here in the past, one was named Alki, the other Spartan, they haven't frequented for a while though.

I agree and I like how you separate things; so far I don’t think I have shown any kind of disrespect to your identity; but human rights is mainly a political, legalistic and ethical concept (and some might say also a tool) generally under debate so if you want to apply human rights reasoning and concepts upon a specific case (in this case for Macedonians) you also have to account for and analyse the debates surrounding the given reasoning and concepts and then see how they affect your specific case.

Then you have no idea or understanding about how Macedonians feel, because they don't 'feel' it for the same reasons that some Greeks do. Like I said earlier, we can discuss the historical aspect where it concerns antiquity, the middle ages, etc, however, the ties to Macedonia that modern Greeks have are essentially geographic, for Macedonians, it is geographic, national, ethnic, linguistic and cultural.

There is a difference between understanding a feeling, or at least attempt to, from having that feeling myself. Off course for a few moments I can try and put myself in your position to try feel what you feel, but even that will fail because I know nothing about you and your background.
Greeks from Aegean Macedonian can also claim to have cultural and even more so linguistic ties to Macedonia. Off course we don’t see Macedonia in national and ethnic terms because we identify as Greeks (for right or wrong).

A weak response from the sideline, surely made to avoid further inquiry. Your state has no right to dictate terms to mine. Period.

You completely misunderstood me; on the contrary, I joined your forum in order to discuss and not to stay silent or avoid topics, even the hot issues , otherwise there would be no reason to join in the first place.
This is my personal wish according to my personal wants and needs. And also can you please tell your organisations to lobby for some flights from Athens because it takes me around 6-7 hours driving to see my baby and another 6-7 hourse to go back to Athens.
Since when states do only what is right and fair?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Petros, I have edited your post by compressing the paragraphs together, please use the preview function when creating posts to see how the finished product will look. None of your writing was tampered with in any way.

Question When: I would say a lot earlier, at least a century before, if you want to observe it directly.

I disagree, because most Christians of Asia Minor were under the sway of the Patriarchate at Constantinople, which was still espousing its historical Roman identity to a large degree, even after the commencement of its close collaboration with the newly established 'Hellenic' church in the first half of the 19th century (which was establishment after the Hellenic state created by the so-called Great Powers of Europe).

I think “Megali Idea” was firstly conceived by the Phanariotes and especially Rigas Feraios which his “Thourios” poem called for something like a “Balkan Federation” based on “Romjiosini”.

I think Feraios also promoted the idea of a Greece of the 5 or 7 seas (I don’t remember very well, I’ ll have to check, anyway...), which implies the borders of a “Great=Megali Ellada” and which I think was the base of the “Megali Idea”.

Rigas was a Vlach from Thessaly who also said the following:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=394&highlight=rhigas

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=394&highlight=rhigas&page=2

The Greek people, that is to say those living in this Empire, without distinction of religion or language, is divided into primary assemblies.....

Not so helleno-homogenous, is it? This isn't what your country came to represent or pursue. I doubt he would have even used Greek as is the English translation in the links, instead in his time he is most likely to have written Romans.

Also Romjios=Greek Orthodox Christian, is different than Romaios=Roman Catholic Christian.

Romaioi is just the Greek spelling and pronounciation of the word Roman. The Roman identity was the identity of Greek-speakers for centuries after the spread of Christianity, so much so that they even named their own language after this foreign, imperial yet historically relevent term. Others too (in the region) also adopted the Roman identity.

The Phanariotes are well known for conceiving their secret society far away from the Greek mainland in what is now Ukraina (Oddessa???) much earlier than 1921 Greek appraising. They also acted mostly outside the Greek mainland.

That has little to do with the 'Hellenic' identity of the 1920's refugees.

After so much reading I thought I knew what to expect when I signed up. I was expecting direct aggressive attacks and high suspicion. To my surprise I was so wrong. Everybody here welcomed me and treated me with respect just like in Macedonian, maybe because is Holly days and out of politeness and happy mood, or maybe because I also respect your Macedonian identity and status. Your level of suspicion is nothing compared to what I was expecting, i fala mnogy na site za toa.

If you manage to stick around long enough this will be one of many things you will be wrong about. Tough decision

I agree and I like how you separate things; so far I don’t think I have shown any kind of disrespect to your identity; but human rights is mainly a political, legalistic and ethical concept (and some might say also a tool) generally under debate so if you want to apply human rights reasoning and concepts upon a specific case (in this case for Macedonians) you also have to account for and analyse the debates surrounding the given reasoning and concepts and then see how they affect your specific case.

Mate, the Macedonians' identity and their natural rights aren't up for debate and don't need to be justified. There is plenty of information here that corroborates our core assertions and if you think that we are going to negate our own identity through an analysis from the Greek perspective then you are mistaken. Like I advised you previously, take some time to read through our threads and topics before you repeat the same tired line that has already been done to death by Greeks before you.

There is a difference between understanding a feeling, or at least attempt to, from having that feeling myself. Off course for a few moments I can try and put myself in your position to try feel what you feel, but even that will fail because I know nothing about you and your background.

You're becoming semantic, and there's no need for it. You don't have to know my background to apply logic and common sense. That is what my 'feeling' is based on.

Greeks from Aegean Macedonian can also claim to have cultural and even more so linguistic ties to Macedonia.

Those 'Greeks' are largely ethnic Macedonians, with some ethnic Vlachs and ethnic Albanians in the mix. I will grant you some Greek-speakers along the coast and in Chalcidice, whatever their ethnicities and linguistic origins were. The language of the majority in Macedonia which was even spoken by the minorities, was Macedonian. I personally know Prosfiges who can speak Macedonian because they learned it from their elders, who learned it from the local Macedonians. Funny that, Prosfiges learning Macedonian before they learn Greek in the newly usurped territories of Greece.

Off course we don’t see Macedonia in national and ethnic terms because we identify as Greeks (for right or wrong).

I know that, but that doesn't stop the politicians of Greece from pursuing their demented cause.

And also can you please tell your organisations to lobby for some flights from Athens because it takes me around 6-7 hours driving to see my baby and another 6-7 hourse to go back to Athens.
Since when states do only what is right and fair?

Perhaps if the paranoid racists in your country wouldn't foam at the mouth everytime a Macedonian enters Greece with something that says Macedonia (*just have a look at how stupid that sounds), it could be something worth considering.

[Onur]

Two more articles about soap operas from Bulgarian and Austrian media;

Turkey Sold Record-High Number of Soap Operas in 2010

A record-high number of Turkish soap operas were sold last year to countries from Europe, the Balkans and the Middle East.

The Bulgarian News Agency reported that the number of Turkish soap operas sold in 2010 was 70. The information was stated by Firat Gulgen, Director of the Turkish media group Kalinos Holding, which is responsible for 80% of the sales of Turkish soap operas abroad.

According to him, one episode of a soap opera currently costs between USD 20.000 and USD 500.000, while at the beginning the cost was between USD 30 and USD 50.

"We have different projects in Russia and Germany. We are about to air "Binbir Gece" in Ukraine. Our biggest market is in the Middle East and it is 60%," Gulgen said, adding that the soap operas that focus on teenagers are not popular and the demand for them is low.

He has also stated that the airing of a new soap opera about Fatih Sultan Mehmet, the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, is scheduled for 2012. "The series will have 30 episodes. The budget is USD 25 M. Besides, we have USD 50 M more, which will be spent on making a movie on the same subject," Gulgen said.

Turkish soap operas have gained an overwhelming popularity in Bulgaria. According to the Austrian paper Der Standard, Turkish soap operas have conquered the Balkans, reversing the country's negative image with the Balkan nations from the time of the Ottoman yoke.

January 18, 2011

http://novinite.com/view_news.php?id=124287

Turkey's 'Invasion' of Bulgaria

At the beginning, there was Isaura. After the fall of the Communist regime in Bulgaria, local TV channels started airing the Brazilian soap opera “Escrava Isaura” (Slave Isaura). It became an instant hit and shortly various Latin American soaps occupied a regular prime-time. In several years, Bulgaria was flooded, to say the least, with different versions of Isaura, Casandra, Juan Carlos, etc.

And just as Bulgarians started to get used to the Latinos, “Binbir Gece” appeared on Bulgarian private channel Nova TV, followed shortly after by “Gumus”, which aired on the TV channel bTV. Both series triggered not a wave, but rather a tsunami of Turkish soap operas in the country.

All of the Turkey-produced series focus on simple, everyday topics like tangled love affairs, heartache, and betrayal. A frequent topic is also the poor but talented young woman who falls in love with her boss. Unlike Latin American soap operas, however, family and respect for the elderly is one of the major topics in the Turkish soaps, and this is believed to be one of the reasons for the huge interest in Bulgaria.

Executives at private Bulgarian channel Nova TV believed the huge success was also due to the similarities in the social culture and lifestyle of the two countries. Led by the enormous interest, the two major private TV channels in Bulgaria started a competition on who will air more Turkish soap operas and receive higher ratings, respectively.

However, Binbir Gece and other soap operas of that kind became a major hit not only in Bulgaria, but also in other countries on the Balkans and the Middle East.

As a result, the interest in Turkey, as a tourist destination, increased significantly, especially for locations where the soap operas were filmed. Travel agencies, determined to cash in on the shows’ popularity, put aside mosques and historical places and ensured guides who provide inside scoops on the shows, cast and set. Only in Bulgaria, the number of tourists traveling to Turkey has increased by 40%, according to data from travel agencies.

It was recently announced that Turkey sold 70 soap operas in 2010, which is a record-high number. They were sold mainly to countries from Europe, the Balkans and the Middle East. According to Firat Gulgen, Director of the Turkish media group Kalinos Holding, which is responsible for 80% of the sales of Turkish soap operas abroad, the biggest market is the Middle East, which holds 60%. However, projects are also currently under development in Russia, Germany and Ukraine.

The series were initially produced for Turkish audience only, but their airing abroad has helped to change the opinion about Turkish people and they served as sort of ambassadors of Turkey to the rest of the world.

January 20, 2011

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=124382