Albanianization in Macedonia

[Risto the Great]

The problem is, the decisions that are being made now are almost irreversible. I'm not saying it's impossible, because everything is possible, but these policies are changing the mentality of all citizens, making them think what is happening is normal. In my opinion, they don't exceed 17%, while they claim at least 25%. Even if the real figure is between 17%-30%, that isn't enough to really change anything. There will be no stronger 'voice' until the citizens start demanding it from their politicians. The numbers aren't all that important

You are right ProMKD.
They are irreversible.
It might be possible to change them, but it will take a war to do it. If Macedonians in the Diaspora are seen to be encouraging civil war in the Republic, then they are seen as being crazy. Yet what is happening in Macedonia is beyond crazy.

Macedonia needs a war to change its constitution and legal amendments. The alternative is to have ethnic Albanians LET Macedonians change their constitution and make the legal amendments. Sad but true. Anyone who denies this is simply ignorant. Are we happy yet?

[EgejskaMakedonia]

You are right ProMKD.
They are irreversible.
It might be possible to change them, but it will take a war to do it. If Macedonians in the Diaspora are seen to be encouraging civil war in the Republic, then they are seen as being crazy. Yet what is happening in Macedonia is beyond crazy.

Macedonia needs a war to change its constitution and legal amendments. The alternative is to have ethnic Albanians LET Macedonians change their constitution and make the legal amendments. Sad but true. Anyone who denies this is simply ignorant. Are we happy yet?

Although I agree that war may be the only solution in this case, there is a distinct obstacle that exists. If the Macedonians aren't prepared to campaign and demand not to be treated as second-class citizens, it is highly unlikely they will fight for such rights. The only way I see a civil war starting, is if the Albanians initiate it, and the effects of that may either wake up the Macedonian people to the sad state of affairs that plagues their nation, OR, the ridiculous demands of the Albanian terrorists will be met, and Macedonians will enjoy an abrupt downgrade to third-class citizens.

[Soldier of Macedon]

You make a point EM, an armed conflict would be initiated by ethnic Albanian extremists, not Macedonians. Of course, they will claim they were provoked - but what sort of provocation would lead these people to raise arms against the state? How much can be reversed without such a perceived 'provocation'? Nobody wants a war, but is there any way of re-establishing a Macedonian Macedonia without war?

[United MKD]

Unfortunately I don't think there is. It's sad, looking at the future you just can't see a bright future, something has got to give and erupt. I don't know how it'll pan out but it's looking quite frightening at the current state.

[Onur]

Hungarians make up 10% of slovakia and don’t have it as good as the shiptars in Macedonia.

Its time to face the music, Macedonians are second rate citizens in Europe and also their very own country.

We deserve to be in this situation and that’s the very sad truth, until we stand up to the shiptars and our other racist neighbors will be seen as nothing more then a joke and push overs.

I remembered your post as soon as i saw this. Both Slovakia and Hungary are members of the EU but see what can happen in there. An ethnic Hungarian who has been born in Slovakia stripped off from his Slovakian citizenship just because he took Hungarian passport;

Olivér Boldoghy is the first ethnic Hungarian who lost his Slovakian citizenship because obtained the Hungarian one
It is unbelievable, but true – in the European Union, people can lose their citizenship if acquiring the citizenship of another member state. This is what happened to Olivér Boldoghy, a Slovakian citizen with ethnic Hungarian background. He lost his Slovakian citizenship as soon as he received his Hungarian passport. Now, he lives as an exile in his birthplace.

The activist of the “Komáromért polgári társulás” received a letter from the Slovakian Interior Ministry on Friday in which he was informed that he was stripped of his Slovakian citizenship.

The decision has been forwarded to the state agencies and within days his drivers license, his identity card and his Slovakian passport will be suspended. He will also lose his social security card and his health insurance card. On February 14, 2012 authorities can kick me out of my birthplace said Boldoghy who is working as a contractor.

"I don't have Hungarian residency, I don't have Hungarian documents; the only way I can acquire Hungarian identity card if move there, but I don't have any property in Hungary and I have no intention to move there. My job is here that requires me to drive a car, so I need drivers license, without that I can't make a living. Without revenue, I can't pay my taxes, my credit, and of course, I can't feed my family or provide health insurance for them in case of illness. Without permanent residence permit, I can't apply for a job either," said Boldoghy.

The only solution would be to apply for permanent residence in Slovakia, which I would get without problem said Boldoghy.

With a move like this however, I would admit that I am a stranger in my native land. I would recognize that the Slovakian state was right all along and it won. In this case, I would betray the ideals that we put forward in Komárom, in September where we called thousands of people to the street to support our ideas of dual citizenship. I would also send the wrong message to people implying that there is reason to be afraid of and it's better not to stand up for their basic rights" explained Boldoghy.

In recent months, number of ethnic Hungarians announced that acquired Hungarian citizenship, but they do not want to give up their Slovakian one. Olivér Boldoghy was the first person who has been stripped of his Slovakian citizenship.

November 20, 2011

http://www.hungarianambiance.com/201...st-ethnic.html

None of us should bow down to their "human rights" rhetoric because it`s simply b.s.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Was this the case in Slovakia prior to joining the EU?

[Vangelovski]

Onur,

More uninformed commentary from you. Why am I not surprised? Firstly, acquiring or maintaining citizenship of a particular country is not a human right, its not a natural right. Its a political/civil right and therefore open to change according to the laws of the state. Secondly, that was and/or still is standard practice in many states across the world. For example, up until 2004, Australian born citizens lost their Australian citizenship if they obtained citizenship of another country. Rupert Murdoch is a case in point when he acquired his American citizenship. Those laws have now changed, but the point is that citizenship is a political concept, a political relationship to the state and one subject to change. Its not an inalienable natural right which has been violated for you to claim that 'human rights' are "BS".

[Onur]

Was this the case in Slovakia prior to joining the EU?

The article says that he was the first person who has been stripped from his citizenship and the article is dated as today. So, it`s happened after they joined to the EU.

Onur,

More uninformed commentary from you. Why am I not surprised? Firstly, acquiring or maintaining citizenship of a particular country is not a human right, its not a natural right. Its a political/civil right and therefore open to change according to the laws of the state.

I was just pointing out the cases in EU as an example for Big Bad Seven`s msg. Why you are trying to create a meaningless argument with me now about whether this is a human right issue or not? but i say same thing to you; Why am I not surprised?

To me, if a person gets stripped from his birth-right of citizenship and loses his insurance policy, drivers license, passport and everything "without pre-notice" [thats what it says in the article] then it becomes an human rights issue.

But like i told you b4, i have zero intention to involve any argument with you Vangelovski, so don't bother trying to create one.

[Vangelovski]

Onur,

This is not the first time that you have attempted to undermine the notion of human rights. What you did was provide a fallacious example of a human rights "violation" and then claim that the notion of human rights is BS. Now you're crawling back into your hole where you belong. I have no doubt, however, that you'll be back to do the same soon.

[Brian]

I find the whole concept of dual citizenship unsavoury.

I can understand the advantages, and hence appeal, of dual citizenship to the individual, but I also understand, and agree with, that the state's first duty is to the state and people who make up that state (ie the first duty of the state of Slovakia should be to Slovaks, and likewise, the first duty of Hungary should be to Hungarians).

Where is the advantage to the state to have people with dual citizenship? If there is no benefit to the state, then why allow it? Also one needs to ask the opposite question (ie benefit Vs detriment equation) is it detrimental to the state? If a person cannot decide, with conviction, whether they are 'this' or 'that', then how much faith can the state have in that individual? As a citizen of a state we earn many rights, including the right to government positions and holding office. How much faith would you have of someone working in a government position with a dual citizenship? If you wouldn't have them in a government position, then why in the rest of society?

Make up your mind - you are either a 'horse' or a 'donkey', no mules allowed.

[Risto the Great]

Well, I think it would be hypocritical for a country like Australia which celebrates multiculturalism to deny dual citizenship. But for other nations that do not, I don't know ... it still sounds harsh in this day and age.

[Onur]

Maybe i can understand that if the laws in that particular country doesn't permit that and if the state authorities gives a warning and deadline to the person by saying that he gotta choose one country and leave the other. But if they strip out people from their birth-right citizenship without a warning, then in my terms, this is a human rights violation because no country has the right of converting people in to an heimatlos status all of a sudden. I don't know if such a thing happened to Macedonians but for example, Greece did that in 1980-1990s around ~8000 Turks from western Thrace. They stripped out their citizenship and made them persona-non-grata just because they gone to Turkey for few months.

If this is happening in EU, then it`s just becomes an another example of double-standards of so-called fantasy land of EU.

[Vangelovski]

Maybe i can understand that if the laws in that particular country doesn't permit that and if the state authorities gives a warning and deadline to the person by saying that he gotta choose one country and leave the other. But if they strip out people from their birth-right citizenship without a warning, then in my terms, this is a human rights violation because no country has the right of converting people in to an heimatlos status all of a sudden.

Citizens need to be aware of the laws in force in their country. Ignorence is not an excuse.

[Niko777]

Welcome to the new website of the Macedonian Army !

[Risto the Great]

Oh ... to be fair Niko, you have given the Albanian link.
But it still irks me. I see no need for an Albanian link there.