Albanianization in Macedonia

[makedonin]

1)There aren't any deputies that speak your language in the Albanian parliament, because you're too few to have one of your representatives elected.

2)Nobody was killed in Albania to get bilingual street signs, because unlike in Macedonia we really don't think that it's such a huge problem.

3) a)No language is foreign to its native speakers b)Let me reply to that with a question: was it worth killing and dying to not allow the largest minority have its own street signs? I don't think so.

The song has been sung already in Kosovo. The Kosovars had bilingual signs during YU and they had their University and even bilingual administration, and yet they complained of not having any basic human rights. Only the result of that explains why they complained.

The bilingual politic is only the way of preparing territorial separation, which obviously all Albanians support.

Such politics won't be allowed in any other country such as US, Germany or any other western country.

[Bill77]

The largest minority parties were the ones of Muslims of Thrace. They went independent (under the names Destiny and Trust) for a brief period in early 90s, taking in consequtive elections a total of about 0,7%. Rainbow Party takes about 0,1%.
Muslims usually elect 2 (rarely 3) MPs with the major parties.

We are talking about ethnicity here, not religions. I am comparing the ROM situation and its neighbors. So stop replying just for the sake of having the last say. Ethnic Macedonians are by far the largest minorities no matter how many wiki articles or Greek government stats you produce. Infact, Macedonians would be larger than Greeks if not for those Albanians and Turks thinking they are Greeks.

[Droog]

Well mabe they should form part of a ruling coalition since Droog is suggesting the largest minority is a criteria to have equal power equal rights.

Well, none of the large parties is in need of the 1 deputy of the Greek party who represents 0,71% of the parliament. In the Macedonian parliament on the other hand Albanian deputies are 29(24%), so of course any of the two parties that wants to take control has to ally itself with an Albanian party.

[indigen]

In the Macedonian parliament on the other hand Albanian deputies are 29(24%), so of course any of the two parties that wants to take control has to ally itself with an Albanian party.

You are either very ignorant or you here to spread cheap Shiptar propaganda, IMHO! The fact IS that the Ghegs (DUI) threatened WAR when there was a prospect of leaving them out of the Government in 2006 and there is no legitimate legal obligation to include Gheg parties in any government whatsoever, even in the FA! Go and do some research on the topic and then try to speak about it! I despise liars and cheap underhand propagandists, especially anti-Macedonian ones posting on a Macedonian forum!!!

[Droog]

You are either very ignorant or you here to spread cheap Shiptar propaganda, IMHO! The fact IS that the Ghegs (DUI) threatened WAR when there was a prospect of leaving them out of the Government and there is no legitimate legal obligation, even in the FA, to do that! Go and do some research on the topic and then try to speak about it! I despise liars and cheap underhand propagandists, especially anti-Macedonian ones posting on a Macedonian forum!!!

Instead of responding with the too-common outburst you should check the stats before jumping to conclusions. Gruevski's coalition had 63 seats(Gruevski's party by itself didn't have more than 60), so of course he was obliged to ally himself with one of the Albanian parties. A majority of 63 is too unstable even if they are all controlled by one party, not to mention how much more unstable such a majority becomes when those 63 seats are divided among small parties like the union of Roma

[ennea]

We are talking about ethnicity here, not religions. I am comparing the ROM situation and its neighbors. So stop replying just for the sake of having the last say. Ethnic Macedonians are by far the largest minorities no matter how many wiki articles or Greek government stats you produce. Infact, Macedonians would be larger than Greeks if not for those Albanians and Turks thinking they are Greeks.

The elections results are not Government statistics or Wiki articles. I'm talking about REAL minorities and REAL data, yours are imaginative and baseless. Muslims of Thrace self-determine as Turks and are Turk-speaking. Their efforts in early 90s and their consistent stance until today, allows us to consider them a size of about 0,7% (max 1%).
Pomaks (sort of Bulgarian Muslims) seem to be officially part of the religious minority, but not the ethnic one. Apparently many Pomaks vote for the Rainbow Party. In Eastern Macedonia (Kavala and Drama Prefects) Rainbow Party has 0,04 and 0,06%. In Pomak areas (Xanthi and Rodopi Prefects of Thrace) it takes 0,16% and 0,21%.

[Bill77]

The elections results are not Government statistics or Wiki articles.

Malaka, regarding Greeks being the largest ethnic minority in Albania you gave me a wiki link as proof. You knew what i was refering to so Stop being Greek by twisting things.

I'm talking about REAL minorities

so what are the Macedonians? aren't they a real minority? or are you denying they exist.

and REAL data, yours are imaginative and baseless.

yeh real data, from a country that has data showing Greece has 99% Greeks......wankers.

Muslims of Thrace self-determine as Turks and are Turk-speaking.

Well don't deny them and call them Turks from the beginning. The same way we call our Minority Ethnic Albanians. Wake up we are not in the 18th century anymore where people in the Balkans were documented under their religious affiliation. It seem Greece is the only country that does this. Fucken cave men.

[Bill77]

Instead of responding with the too-common outburst you should check the stats before jumping to conclusions. Gruevski's coalition had 63 seats(Gruevski's party by itself didn't have more than 60), so of course he was obliged to ally himself with one of the Albanian parties. A majority of 63 is too unstable even if they are all controlled by one party, not to mention how much more unstable such a majority becomes when those 63 seats are divided among small parties like the union of Roma

ok, If its unstability due to lack of seats in parliament you are concerned about, let VMRO get in coalition with other minor Macedonian parties even couple up with SDSM if must, will that satisfy you?

[Droog]

ok, If its unstability due to lack of seats in parliament you are concerned about, let VMRO get in coalition with other minor Macedonian parties even couple up with SDSM if must, will that satisfy you?

There are no non-coalition Macedonian parliamentary parties except for a very small one with just one deputy Bill, and that simply means that the party that gets the largest percentage of votes in Macedonia whether that party is VMRO or SDSM has to ally itself with an Albanian one. Resuming: No agreement or anti-Macedonian conspiracy forces any of the two large parties to ally with one of the two main Albanian parties but that alliance is basically a natural status of affairs related to the demographic reality of the country.

[ennea]

Malaka, regarding Greeks being the largest ethnic minority in Albania you gave me a wiki link as proof. You knew what i was refering to so Stop being Greek by twisting things.

From CIA Factbook
Ethnic groups (in Albania):
Albanian 95%, Greek 3%, other 2% (Vlach, Roma (Gypsy), Serb, Macedonian, Bulgarian) (1989 est.)
note: in 1989, other estimates of the Greek population ranged from 1% (official Albanian statistics) to 12% (from a Greek organization)
This is consistent with election results for the Greek Minority Party:
2001: 35,000 votes 2,6% 3 seats
2005: 56,000 votes 4,1% 2 seats
2009: 18,000 votes 1,2% 1 seat (part of a coalition)
Maybe some Albanian user can assure this is accurate and also explain the fluctuations

so what are the Macedonians? aren't they a real minority? or are you denying they exist.

The ones that are No 1 minority (i.e. more than 2-3% in Albania and more than 0,6-0,7% in Greece) are a wishful thinking or a product of your imagination.

Well don't deny them and call them Turks from the beginning. Wake up we are not in the 18th century anymore where people in the Balkans were documented under their religious affiliation. It seem Greece is the only country that does this. Fucken cave men.

We can't do that. Their treatment and privileges are based on the Treaty of Lausanne. It's not 18th century, but it's... 1923 (a little dated).

[Bill77]

The ones that are No 1 minority (i.e. more than 2-3% in Albania and more than 0,6-0,7% in Greece) are a wishful thinking or a product of your imagination.

Malaka, i am not disputing (after you sugested its not the case)that Macedonians are not the largest minority in Albania, to suggest so, shows Its your imagination, and its coming out of your ass. You can now supply a CIA factbook stats, but it does not change you initially threw in a wiki link. Move on and give us something interesting.

In regards to Greece, Macedonians being the largest minority is a fact. Giving political party results as an indication of ethnicity and how many there are is a joke.

Go and have the last say you rat bag.

[Risto the Great]

Bill, there is no need to call ennea a malaka. It is easy to ignore your important comments when you resort to language like that.

[ennea]

Bill, there is no need to call ennea a malaka. It is easy to ignore your important comments when you resort to language like that.

In Greece, malaka can be an affectionate and pally address.

[Risto the Great]

ennea, I have a feeling Bill is not being affectionate.

[Bill77]

ennea, I have a feeling Bill is not being affectionate.

I should have said "Pusti Malaka" i apologise. JK

come on Greek mates always call each other "vre malaka".
I am not Greek though (nor have i known him long enough to call him a friend) but that can change. Nonetheless, surely you don't have to be Greek to be allowed to use such words. And it was kind of in a affectionate manner, but i will admit, the affection i am having is waring out slightly, each time he suggests the Macedonian minority in Greece is insignificant and uses stupid examples such as there are more Muslims, or females, or drops of water in the ocean then there are Macedonians. Or if you don't vote for the Rainbow Party you are not a Macedonian or you don't exist.



By the way ennea, regarding this,

We can't do that. Their treatment and privileges are based on the Treaty of Lausanne. It's not 18th century, but it's... 1923 (a little dated).

Since when does Greece respect treaties, or any other deals and orders that are produced to Greece.

(lets take it elsewhere and keep this thread on subject)