Albanianization in Macedonia

[Albo]

Albo you should direct your comments and complaints to the offices of DUI or other Albanian political representatives.

Yes they are also to blame.. but this village falls under the jurisdiction of Kumanovo municipality which has been ruled by Macedonian Mayors from both parties since independence, it's a local issue where funds need to be requested to central authorities from the local level.

For starters, you assume government responsibility for education.*

Is this wrong?
ALL public schools in Macedonia are funded by the government.

Secondly, you assume all citizens pay tax, and if they do, that they pay the full amount that they are required to.

So your assuming that they don't or haven't paid enough tax over the years to deserve a simple small school?

Thirdly, you assume all Macedonian schools are funded by the state, and if they are, that they're funded adequately

I haven't seen a case where the local population has funded a school in Macedonian communities because the state hasn't!

The funding of things like schools, local roads, drainage, sewage Drinking water, basic infrastructure have been funded by (mostly the Albanian diaspora) in Albanian regions since independence! This isn't a first.. there are countless stories of money being collected for basic needs that are the responsibility of the government,

I'm not saying macedonian regions are perfect.. but I haven't seen hardly any cases of where the local communities have payed for basic infrastructure as Albanians have for decades!

Fifthly, you assume that education in your "mother tongue" while living in a foreign country is somehow a right.

"FOREIGN COUNTRY" ??
How is it a foriegn country when you are talking about the land of your forefathers?

The land in which you are a citizen of!

The land of a Multi cultural country and society since the term Macedonia has existed!

The land where one contributes taxes too!

The land where you own property that has been passed down over generations!

The land where your family has fought and died for eg (partisans) Yes many were Albanian - which people tend to either ignore or don't care that Albania blood was also split during the creation of the first Macedonian republic!

Ect ect ..I could go on and on..
The idea of Macedonia has never been a mono ethnic homogeneous state!
We as Albanians have the right to remain Albanian WITHOUT THE NEED TO ASSIMILATE - We have no need or want to assimilate!

I haven't watched your video link, but if its an example of Albanians been assimilated into the culture of the country in which they live, then that is excellent news! This is the natural order of things.

So you would agree and are happy with the process of assimilation that has occurred to ethnic Macedonians in other Balkan countries?
Is that GREAT NEWS? as you say!

Given that Albanians have supposedly lived in Macedonia for centuries

How is it that they have " supposedly" lived in Macedonia for centuries?

[Spirit]

Yes they are also to blame.. but this village falls under the jurisdiction of Kumanovo municipality which has been ruled by Macedonian Mayors from both parties since independence, it's a local issue where funds need to be requested to central authorities from the local level.


Is this wrong?
ALL public schools in Macedonia are funded by the government.




So your assuming that they don't or haven't paid enough tax over the years to deserve a simple small school?



I haven't seen a case where the local population has funded a school in Macedonian communities because the state hasn't!

The funding of things like schools, local roads, drainage, sewage Drinking water, basic infrastructure have been funded by (mostly the Albanian diaspora) in Albanian regions since independence! This isn't a first.. there are countless stories of money being collected for basic needs that are the responsibility of the government,

I'm not saying macedonian regions are perfect.. but I haven't seen hardly any cases of where the local communities have payed for basic infrastructure as Albanians have for decades!




"FOREIGN COUNTRY" ??
How is it a foriegn country when you are talking about the land of your forefathers?

The land in which you are a citizen of!

The land of a Multi cultural country and society since the term Macedonia has existed!

The land where one contributes taxes too!

The land where you own property that has been passed down over generations!

The land where your family has fought and died for eg (partisans) Yes many were Albanian - which people tend to either ignore or don't care that Albania blood was also split during the creation of the first Macedonian republic!

Ect ect ..I could go on and on..
The idea of Macedonia has never been a mono ethnic homogeneous state!
We as Albanians have the right to remain Albanian WITHOUT THE NEED TO ASSIMILATE - We have no need or want to assimilate!




So you would agree and are happy with the process of assimilation that has occurred to ethnic Macedonians in other Balkan countries?
Is that GREAT NEWS? as you say!


How is it that they have " supposedly" lived in Macedonia for centuries?

FUCKWIT, Albanians do have the right to remain Albanian in Macedonia, no one is denying that.
My parents migrated to Australia, they kept their identity and ethnicity as Macedonian but they integrated into Australian society, learning English, integrating into Australian society etc while retaining their culture as have many ethnicities here.
Most of the Albanians in Macedonia chose not to integrate and cry poor victim yet Albanians in Macedonia have more rights than most minorities in other countries, in fact Albanians in Macedonia have the best rights afforded to a minority in Europe. Do Macedonians in Albania have the same rights that Albanians in Macedonia have, after all they have lived there for centuries and it is their ancestral homelands as well. No they don’t
Idiot, and normally I don’t resort to name calling but you are a fucking hypocrite and should just fuck of from this forum

[Niko777]

Hitler fridge magnets, just one of many Albanian souvenirs available to purchase in central Skopje

[Risto the Great]

Look at the opportunism of these people. They became whores for Hitler, Wilson, Clinton et al. They became Muslims to gain unfettered access to Macedonian lands. They became Greeks. They have a tendency to become criminals. It's like watching lab rats in action when they are in a new environment.

[Carlin]

I disagree with generalizations and some of the views expressed against the Albanians. It is no better than how the average Greeks view and treat Macedonians (as in the opinions we just read about in Neos Kosmos).

I think we can all rise above it, and treat each other with respect and honour.

FYI - Note about my family history:

- My ancestors were expelled from the Moschopole area by Muslim Albanians;
- Prior to that, as per tradition (which is possibly inaccurate, because this goes back to before Moschopole), my ancestors were driven from area just north of Ioannina by Muslim Albanian bands;
- More recently, late 19th/early 20th century my ancestors and their villages were frequently and repeatedly attacked/ransacked by Muslim Albanian kachak bands, completely unprovoked. (There was a murder/killing recorded.) In one famous case, the local Arman Orthodox populace organized themselves and fought back, recapturing the stolen goods as well as dealing a severe blow to the kachak band. There was a poem written/recorded which some years after even Albanians themselves translated into Albanian, and admired the heroism of these people (especially a couple of leaders) who fought on their own against the kachaks.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The land where your family has fought and died for eg (partisans) Yes many were Albanian - which people tend to either ignore or don't care that Albania blood was also split during the creation of the first Macedonian republic!

Some would argue that the first Macedonian republic was established in Krusevo during the Ilinden Uprising, where the overwhelming majority of ethnic Albanians that were complicit or involved as combatants fought against the Macedonians. As for WWII, do you believe there were more ethnic Albanians from Macedonia who fought as partisans with the aim of creating a Macedonian republic as opposed to those who were fighting to create a "greater" Albania?

How is it a foriegn country when you are talking about the land of your forefathers?

Careful, you only need to go back a few centuries (or less in some cases) where the above argument becomes increasingly useless. Not to mention the manner in which it came to be.

The land of a Multi cultural country and society since the term Macedonia has existed!

Is Albania a multi cultural country?

I disagree with generalizations and some of the views expressed against the Albanians. It is no better than how the average Greeks view and treat Macedonians (as in the opinions we just read about in Neos Kosmos).

Generalisations aren't always helpful. Which views specifically do you disagree with and which of them are comparable with average Greek attitudes towards Macedonians?

[Carlin]

Well generalizations such as that they are all criminals and similar (also name calling).

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Some would argue that the first Macedonian republic was established in Krusevo during the Ilinden Uprising, where the overwhelming majority of ethnic Albanians that were complicit or involved as combatants fought against the Macedonians. As for WWII, do you believe there were more ethnic Albanians from Macedonia who fought as partisans with the aim of creating a Macedonian republic as opposed to those who were fighting to create a "greater" Albania?

This one is worth investigating as there were Albanian brigades in the NLA and there were Albanians present at ASNOM.

[Soldier of Macedon]

This one is worth investigating as there were Albanian brigades in the NLA and there were Albanians present at ASNOM.

The period in reference is WWII. I was juxtaposing ethnic Albanians from Macedonia who served as Macedonian Partisans with ethnic Albanians from Macedonia who served in the Balli Kombetar.

Well generalizations such as that they are all criminals and similar (also name calling).

Such generalisations based on stereotypes that some ethnic Albanians promote themselves can hardly be compared to the rabid racism exhibited by many Greeks towards Macedonians simply for existing.

[Risto the Great]

I disagree with generalizations and some of the views expressed against the Albanians. It is no better than how the average Greeks view and treat Macedonians (as in the opinions we just read about in Neos Kosmos).

I think we can all rise above it, and treat each other with respect and honour.

FYI - Note about my family history:

- My ancestors were expelled from the Moschopole area by Muslim Albanians;
- Prior to that, as per tradition (which is possibly inaccurate, because this goes back to before Moschopole), my ancestors were driven from area just north of Ioannina by Muslim Albanian bands;
- More recently, late 19th/early 20th century my ancestors and their villages were frequently and repeatedly attacked/ransacked by Muslim Albanian kachak bands, completely unprovoked. (There was a murder/killing recorded.) In one famous case, the local Arman Orthodox populace organized themselves and fought back, recapturing the stolen goods as well as dealing a severe blow to the kachak band. There was a poem written/recorded which some years after even Albanians themselves translated into Albanian, and admired the heroism of these people (especially a couple of leaders) who fought on their own against the kachaks.

I think (based on the above) they generally like to invade.

They are an opportunistic people. Sure, that is a generalisation. It could even be understood to be a compliment. Like Negroids are thought to be more athletic than Caucasians. Macedonians didn't change religion en masse simply to seize upon benefits conferred to Muslims. Albanians did. The level of criminality is clear and this is another (less savoury) side of the opportunism present in the Albanian race. Albanians seem to be more industrious and resourceful than their neighbours in the region. History supports this argument.

[Karposh]

I think (based on the above) they generally like to invade.

They are an opportunistic people. Sure, that is a generalisation. It could even be understood to be a compliment. Like Negroids are thought to be more athletic than Caucasians. Macedonians didn't change religion en masse simply to seize upon benefits conferred to Muslims. Albanians did. The level of criminality is clear and this is another (less savoury) side of the opportunism present in the Albanian race. Albanians seem to be more industrious and resourceful than their neighbours in the region. History supports this argument.

Not a bad summary Risto but Wikipedia manages to sum up the Albanian national psyche even better than you could I think. Admittedly, they are focusing specifically on Albanian crime but the tone of the article is as though the Albanians are born into a life of crime with their clan loyalties, blood oaths, besa traditions, etc...

Albanian organized crime is active in Europe, North America, South America, and various other parts of the world including the Middle East and Asia. The Albanian Mafia participates in a diverse range of criminal enterprises including trafficking in drugs, arms, humans, and human organs. The Albanian criminal scenario is characterized by diversified criminal plans which, in their complexity, show one of the highest criminal capacities in the world. In Albania alone, there are over 15 mafia families that control organized crime. According to WikiLeaks reports, the Albanian mafia has monopolized various international affiliations from as far east as Israel, to as far west as South America. These reports primarily indicate a strong connection between politicians and various Albanian mafia families. According to the Research Institute for European and American Studies (RIEAS), Albanian mafia groups are hybrid organizations (various sectors of society), often involved in both criminal and political activities.[1]

The Albanian Mafia, in its entirety, constitutes one of the highest crime generating elements in the world, combining the "traditional" characteristics – plainly manifest in the rigid internal discipline, in the clan structure, in the "endogamic closure" which increases the impermeability, the reliability and the endogenous solidity – with modern and innovative elements, such as trans-nationality, commercial imprinting and the criminogenous culture of service. The massive logistics to almost anywhere and the syncretic nature of Albanian crime has facilitated its establishment outside the mother country and its integration with the local criminality, exploiting the opportunities inherent in the entire compatriot network.

Staggering...But I'm sure Wikipedia is only referring to the few bad apples in the lot and not casting aspersions on all Albanians.

[Gocka]

Not a bad summary Risto but Wikipedia manages to sum up the Albanian national psyche even better than you could I think. Admittedly, they are focusing specifically on Albanian crime but the tone of the article is as though the Albanians are born into a life of crime with their clan loyalties, blood oaths, besa traditions, etc...



Staggering...But I'm sure Wikipedia is only referring to the few bad apples in the lot and not casting aspersions on all Albanians.

LOL well done, well done indeed good sir.

[Gocka]

I think we can all rise above it, and treat each other with respect and honour.

I tend to agree but I also believe respect and honor are something that require reciprocation.

Macedonians have been more than tolerant over the decades and even centuries. Look where that has gotten us. What have Albanians done just in Macedonia to honor their country men? How have Albanians shown Macedonians respect? By hanging Albanian flags on every corner, refusing to speak Macedonian, taking up guerrilla warfare against our people, refusing to become part of the country they live in?

Not everyone is deserving of respect.

Albanians have ascended on the world stage through their mafia. This is a fact that is undeniable. Ford god sake, James bond no longer chases Russians, they are Albanians now. The whole world has take note, every intelligence service in Europe has taken note. Do you know how an ethnic mafia grows to that size from such a small populace? When everyone is involved, that's how. Do you think a handful of people run a worldwide crime syndicate? Every other Albanian family is mixed up in that scene one way or another. At a minimum they all turn a blind eye on all the evil elements within their communities. Would you shield murderers just because they were Macedonian? I wouldn't. They don't see it that way. To them it doesn't matter if the Albanian mafia hurts others, as long as its good for Albanians.

I'm not about to shed a tear over these savages over some pc crap about generalizations. Just because a generalization doesn't cover 100% of a group doesn't mean its not true.

Do Russians drink too much vodka? Yes they do.
Do Japanese people smoke a lot? Yes they do.
Are Albanians disproportionately involved in criminal activity? Yes they are.

[VMRO]

Carlin, i have a book if you are interested.

[Carlin]

Thanks man, that would be great. Is there anything you don't have?