Albanianization in Macedonia

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  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8533

    Originally posted by Bratot View Post
    Once again, you go round and round and round with the standard insinuations. It's boring.

    How about you FINALY show us how will you achieve that moral revolution, how will you teach our people to:
    1. Understand that THEY are a human being.
    2. Realise that THEY have inalienable natural rights and corresponding responsibilities.
    3. Exercise THEIR natural rights and meet THEIR responsibilities.

    This is the one thing you continuously missing to point out, but enjoy to theorise what we need.
    Bratot,

    Please do not consider yourself typical of the average human being. People usually understand these basic issues when they are explained to them. You on the other hand...

    I've also made my views on this quite clear many times. We can only win people over one by one and it will take a very very long time to do so. In fact, this began over 150 years ago, I and others on this forum are simply continuing what our predecessors started. YOU on the other hand are resisting this very movement and promoting YOUR ideologically flawed assumptions and view that the Macedonian people CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be free to determine their own affairs, thereby working to stifle a moral revolution, the necessary precursor to any liberation.
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

    Comment

    • Bratot
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 2855

      Vangelovski,

      you still didn't provide the practical solution how to win people over... and having said that, you are far from continuing what our predecessors started.

      You actually fit in what Jehovah's Witnesses activity looks like when stoping people on the streets.
      Last edited by Bratot; 12-14-2010, 03:42 AM.
      The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15660

        Originally posted by Bratot View Post
        Then it's about a time you think how your 'hot potatoes' are viewed by the majority of Macedonians when you attach such exclusive right to yourself to be the arbitary.
        Bratot, you reject the interim accord but do not reject the consequences arising from it.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Bratot
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 2855

          Risto,

          you created a new thread, thus don't delute this thread with your favorite phrases.
          The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13675

            Bratot, what exactly do you disagree with in your views with RtG? Is it the approach? The means? The end? I really want to understand your point of view here.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Bratot
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 2855

              Soldier,

              it started from a objection due to degradation of Macedonians living in RoM, which happen to be so difficult to avoid when trying supposedly to educate our compatriots.

              But now, it looks like some kind of a crusade against the "heretics".
              I guess they want me to be crucified for giving such sinful objection.
              The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8533

                Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                Vangelovski,

                you still didn't provide the practical solution how to win people over... and having said that, you are far from continuing what our predecessors started.

                You actually fit in what Jehovah's Witnesses activity looks like when stoping people on the streets.
                Bratot,

                The only way to ensure Macedonian FREEDOM is if all (or at least a great majority of) Macedonians are committed to it, rather than your dullusional "grand strategy" that you are "unable to talk about in public".

                The only way to get Macedonian committment to freedom is to win over each and every individual. Thats not something that is achieved over night and each individual needs to hear the 'message'. One way that this 'message' is being delivered is right here on the MTO, and many members have slowly come to see that the Macedonian people SHOULD be FREE to DETERMINE their own AFFAIRS. They have also come to realise that treason such as the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement PREVENT them from determining their own affairs. You, however, have consistently shown that you DO NOT support Macedonian freedom, by, for example, subtly supporting the Interim Accord.
                Last edited by Vangelovski; 12-14-2010, 05:53 AM.
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15660

                  Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                  You, however, have consistently shown that you DO NOT support Macedonian freedom.
                  No, maybe not. Bratot has shown that a secret agenda possibly exists and possibly many dominoes still possibly need to be aligned in order to achieve the possible "master plan". This "master plan" will possibly see the majority of Macedonians instantly convert from a propensity for servitude to one of possible empowerment. Or, there will simply be further Albanianisation of Macedonia. In which case, go to the beginning of this thread and repeat until something changes.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Vangelovski
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 8533

                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    No, maybe not. Bratot has shown that a secret agenda possibly exists and possibly many dominoes still possibly need to be aligned in order to achieve the possible "master plan". This "master plan" will possibly see the majority of Macedonians instantly convert from a propensity for servitude to one of possible empowerment. Or, there will simply be further Albanianisation of Macedonia. In which case, go to the beginning of this thread and repeat until something changes.
                    I knew I was missing something...
                    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                    Comment

                    • Bratot
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 2855

                      Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                      Bratot,

                      The only way to ensure Macedonian FREEDOM is if all (or at least a great majority of) Macedonians are committed to it, rather than your dullusional "grand strategy" that you are "unable to talk about in public".
                      Before you undertake something you wish to notify the enemy what you are planing to do with him?

                      I'm just being convinced to exclude you from any posibile initiative on Macedonian matters, as result of your unimprovable immaturity.

                      This is beyond belief.
                      The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                      Comment

                      • fyrOM
                        Banned
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 2180

                        I get the feeling that what Bratot and others could be looking for an explanation of the nuts and bolts rather than broad strokes of what is needed.

                        I don’t know Bratot other than on this site so I cannot know his true hart. I like to believe he is on the right side of the fence and not like Crvenkovski so I believe the first part of convincing a person there is a problem and hence a need for some action is understood and past then what’s left is to work out what action and how its going to work.

                        Regardless, here is a quick "practical" check list for YOU:

                        1. Understand that you are a human being.
                        2. Realise that you have inalienable natural rights and corresponding responsibilities.
                        3. Exercise your natural rights and meet your responsibilities.

                        Is this really a practical checklist on how to or is it really realising
                        You are a human being who has right responsibilities and capabilities and you need to take action to exercise your right to achieve your responsibilities or objectives.

                        There was a question about how would an objective viewer understand this thread. If I were to read the above it sounds to me like a pep talk to convince someone who is in their shell that they too are valuable as a person and to make them realise they have rights ie tools at there disposal to achieve their needs. It doesn’t say anything to me in a step by step list how to exercise those rights to achieve those objectives.

                        There may be some in RoM or the diaspora who faced with the current situation find it too overwhelming and don’t know where to start and have fallen into a kind of paralysis where they need to be coax out of this paralysis first before they can start thinking and doing anything. You are right in saying that the first thing is to stir the mind but this is Not what Bratot is asking. He accepts there is a need for action and is fired up to do something. He realises and understands the broad objectives outlined above and now he is stuck on ok this is what we want to do…ie exercise our rights to fulfil our responsibilities…so how do we start…step by step how to s.

                        I really didn’t want to say any of the above because I think we are of the same desires and I don’t want to sound like I am questioning anyone’s intelligence because I know from other posts you are all intelligent but reading this thread I cannot help seeing the repetitive statements going around in a circle and it reminds me of two people playing chess and are so engrossed in the game that they cannot see a move yet a third person walking by says just do x move.

                        Comment

                        • Rogi
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 2343

                          Bratot, you are being far too naive with this secret plan or conspiracy that you are suggesting. It is unrealistic.

                          To undertake anything serious that will fix the problems that Macedonia has, the Macedonian people must be completely behind it. It is impossible to have the Macedonian people completely behind it, when they no nothing about what is supposed to happen and more importantly, the way things are heading in Macedonia, there will need to be a substantial mind shift for any such 'grand plan' as you suggest to actually be widely supported, because as it stands it will be opposed by the Macedonian people, in favour of Euro-integration.

                          That is the reality of the situation in Macedonia and these suggestions sound far too much like a day dream and sound like someone who is in serious debt, begging to win the lotto without facing the reality and dealing with it.

                          Comment

                          • julie
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2009
                            • 3869

                            How does one encourage (rather quickly) a shift in individuals consciousness , as a collective?
                            "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

                            Comment

                            • Rogi
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 2343

                              There are many ways, but I'll leave that one for the experts.

                              Though what is most important, is to realise that the mind shift is what is necessary, not some cloak and dagger strategy that is really a denial or avoidance of reality.

                              Comment

                              • fyrOM
                                Banned
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 2180

                                One thing I find peculiar with all this talk of rights is where dose the quotient my might is right fit in these equations.

                                I have a cousin who was involved in the 2001 conflict. At the end he was ordered to keep his head down and stop shooting even though the Albanians were still shooting because the NATO troops were going to be coming in to disarm the Albanians…read save their backsides. He told his commander if they could have a few more hours with them the NATO troops wont need to do anything the problem will be solved. He was told to shut up.

                                What that says is you have right but NATO doesn’t give a flying F if you do and their might is right. There’s more to the Macedonian equation than just rights.

                                Comment

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