Greeks Terrorize Macedonian Tourists in Halkidiki

[fyrOM]

Bij I am disappointed you see it as a fantasy novel.

Firstly to adequately explain the points it needed to be long but I don’t think it is SO long the reader looses its meaning.

Secondly it is not fantasy in that it is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH after all this is supposed tobe the Macedonian TRUTH organisation and NOT the Macedonian WHITEWASH site. If people want to use their skills to play down and diminish the truth for whatever alterier motives they may have as outlined in my posts then they should either deny the points through counter argument or declare themselves or change the name of the site.

My second disappointment is that you seem to take it as a personal attack against you. It is stating facts and arguing any counter claims through logical argument. Most people don’t want to be wrong and even fewer want to admit it and if they take it on as personal will attempt to defend the undefendable.

My third disappointment is with Macedonians having extremely low EQ even when they might have high IQ and allow their emotions to override their intelligence and then try to persuade themselves they are right and are making a conscious logical decision to do something ie go to egej with no valid reason when in reality they simply JUST WANT to do it.

Even more disappointing is that when you realise the thing they are risking with their action is the very thing they claim to mean most to them ie the Macedonian Identity.

Either you truly care or you don’t. Anything else is JUST WANT and either

deluding your self its not or

you really are that stupid and don’t know better or

JUST WANT and you are smart enough to know what you are doing and it is a conscious decision to do it fully aware of everything and then that means your PERSONAL GAIN is your GENUIN FIRST priority and your words supposedly in agreeance with everyone else are just a DISGUISE so people don’t think bad of you while you SECRETLY do your own intention solely for your own personal gain.

In the past this description describe what was called a TURNCOAT or TRAITOR today it seems to have been redefined to mean a Patriot who happens to be smart enough to know what’s good in life and astute enough to know how to get it personally for themselves only.

And before you take it personally Bij its not about you but the arguments. From what you have said it sounds like you just didn’t think too much about it and got swept up by the people you were with in the excitement of travel or depending on your personal circumstances maybe it was inconvenient right then to stay with other people. Going to egej is not like faulty wiring one unintentional slip up and your dead. I think Macedonians need to be and are able to recognise unintentioned slip ups and be gracious enough not to beat each other up. God knows Macedonians have enough enemies trying to beat us up without us joining in for the slightest reason.

[fyrOM]

Ok SoM I wont use Romians or Romulans nor klingons haha but I can assure you I have never posted on MakNews so if anyone has used a similar term it is purely coincidental. Nonetheless it will not happen again on this site by me.

I must have missed your post as I would never intentional ignore you.

I do speak Macedonian enough to get by but not at a high level or to be able to do proper translations and my reading Macedonian is slow as I taught myself at an older age.

You mention it is in a different thread. If you can tell me which thread it will make it easier but I will try to find it in the meantime.

[Bij]

Ozimak, you make me laugh. So much energy wasted!

I made a conscience choice to go to egejska. It was a beautiful place with a deeply entrenched Macedonian culture and lots of great Macedonian people. It's a shame you'll never get to see it.

Now that should fuel another evaluation of my mindset for you. You clearly need the entertainment in life.

[Bill77]

Ozimak, you make me laugh. So much energy wasted!

I made a conscience choice to go to egejska. It was a beautiful place with a deeply entrenched Macedonian culture and lots of great Macedonian people. It's a shame you'll never get to see it.

Now that should fuel another evaluation of my mindset for you. You clearly need the entertainment in life.

I agree Bij, why not see our Macedonian land over the border. If people are concerned about spending money and thinking that would prop up Greece's economy, then do a day trip and pack your lunch from the ROM.

[fyrOM]

Bij don’t flatter yourself its not about you but everyone else who reads this forum. Hopefully it will alter peoples perception and may cause discussion and reach even those who do not read this forum. Maybe it wishful thinking but at least I think I can say I tried.

[Mastika]

I agree Bij, why not see our Macedonian land over the border. If people are concerned about spending money and thinking that would prop up Greece's economy, then do a day trip and pack your lunch from the ROM.

How many people in this day and age would actually do that?, that was the last generation of holiday goers.
If you drive from Skopje to Gostivar you are expected to stay the night, do you really think people going to Egejska will just go on day trips. Only a small minority would even think of doing that.

The fact is most people are not going to visit relatives (seeing as most Macedonians living in ROM don't have aegean macedonian ancestry), they are instead going to Halkidiki or Solun to spend all of their money in Greek run establishments, indirectly funding Greek efforts to negate the Macedonian identity/nation.

[Bill77]

How many people in this day and age would actually do that?, that was the last generation of holiday goers.
If you drive from Skopje to Gostivar you are expected to stay the night, do you really think people going to Egejska will just go on day trips. Only a small minority would even think of doing that.

The fact is most people are not going to visit relatives (seeing as most Macedonians living in ROM don't have aegean macedonian ancestry), they are instead going to Halkidiki or Solun to spend all of their money in Greek run establishments, indirectly funding Greek efforts to negate the Macedonian identity/nation.

I was refering mainly to us Macedonians outside the ROM like Bij and myself. If we are making the effort going all the way to ROM for a holliday, why not see our land and not only just the Aegean part. It does not have to cost anything.

Also it would be a good thing if Macedonians from ROM do go visit our Aegean part especially Lerin area. So they can witness that they are not much better off than what we are evan though Greece are a EU country.

[Onur]

Onur, Some say that TAV is not a serious company and that they will not do a good job to take over the airports, alot of people are skeptical mainly those from the opposition parties i think TAV is more then capable to get the job done. I think they need to bring in the cheap airlines, people will be able to travel within Europe more.

Prolet, I just saw this in the news;

TAV Doubles Sales-Growth Goal to More Than 20% on Ground-Handling Units

TAV Havalimanlari Holding AS, Turkey’s largest airport operator, more than doubled its sales- growth target as increased traffic and acquisitions helped ground-services revenue rise.


Euro-denominated sales will probably increase by more than 20 percent in 2010, compared with a growth forecast at the beginning of the year of 10 percent, Chief Executive Officer Sani Sener told reporters in Istanbul late yesterday.

TAV runs 10 airports, with four in Turkey including Istanbul’s Ataturk, the country’s busiest, and others in Georgia, Tunisia and Macedonia. It also provides catering services and duty-free shops. TAV’s Havas division bought a stake in Turkish Airlines’ ground-handling unit last year and agreed in April to buy half of a similar business in Latvia.

Sener reiterated a target of increasing group passenger numbers this year by 10 percent from about 42 million travelers in 2009, with traffic increasing to 100 million passengers by 2020. TAV’s airports served 21.3 million passengers in the first six months of 2010, a 13 percent increase from a year earlier.

First-half net income was 8.5 million euros ($11 million), compared with a loss of 2.1 million euros a year earlier, while sales increased 25 percent to 351 million euros, the Istanbul- based company said yesterday.

TAV declined as much as 10 kurus, or 1.5 percent, to 6.60 liras and was down 0.8 percent as of 12:29 p.m. in Istanbul trading. The stock has risen 40 percent this year.


Acquisitions by Havas
The Havas ground-handling brand acquired 50 percent of Turkish Airlines’ TGS unit in December, adding access to five airports in the country. Havas agreed in April to buy half of North Hub Services, the ground handler of Latvia’s SJSC Riga international airport, for 3.25 million euros.

North Hub Services, which also operates in Helsinki, will start services in the Estonian capital of Tallinn in October, Stockholm and the Lithuanian capital of Vilnius in 2011 and Copenhagen in 2012, Sener said.

“We are very serious about making Riga a hub for northern Europe and Istanbul for Europe, Central Asia, the Middle East and Africa,” he said.

TAV plans to sell shares in Havas through an initial public offering in 2011, Sener said. The division’s partners, which include HSBC Holdings Plc with 28.3 percent and Turkey’s Is Girisim Sermayesi Yatirim Ortakligi AS with 6.7 percent, have all agreed to some of their Havas holdings in the IPO, he said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...ing-units.html

[Bij]

How many people in this day and age would actually do that?, that was the last generation of holiday goers.
If you drive from Skopje to Gostivar you are expected to stay the night, do you really think people going to Egejska will just go on day trips. Only a small minority would even think of doing that.

The fact is most people are not going to visit relatives (seeing as most Macedonians living in ROM don't have aegean macedonian ancestry), they are instead going to Halkidiki or Solun to spend all of their money in Greek run establishments, indirectly funding Greek efforts to negate the Macedonian identity/nation.

Dude, 90% of Macedonian estabishments are Greek owned. Let's be realistic here, Macedonians from rom are often unwittingly and unknowingly funding Greeks when they buy milk and bread

[Bratot]

How many people in this day and age would actually do that?, that was the last generation of holiday goers.
If you drive from Skopje to Gostivar you are expected to stay the night, do you really think people going to Egejska will just go on day trips. Only a small minority would even think of doing that.

The fact is most people are not going to visit relatives (seeing as most Macedonians living in ROM don't have aegean macedonian ancestry), they are instead going to Halkidiki or Solun to spend all of their money in Greek run establishments, indirectly funding Greek efforts to negate the Macedonian identity/nation.

I think you are talking out of a hand (tresesh of rakav) many assumptions insignificantly based on local patriotism rivalry.

I bet you never stayed more than a week in Bitola to see of how many young Macedonians from Kostorusko&Lerinsko enjoy their time there during the weekends or daily, going to nightclubs, hanging out with their friends from the Bitola region.

In the last 10 years the contact from the both side of the border is enourmously increased, socially, culturally and economically.

I was refering mainly to us Macedonians outside the ROM like Bij and myself. If we are making the effort going all the way to ROM for a holliday, why not see our land and not only just the Aegean part. It does not have to cost anything.

Also it would be a good thing if Macedonians from ROM do go visit our Aegean part especially Lerin area. So they can witness that they are not much better off than what we are evan though Greece are a EU country.

Even if that cost something we MUST visit our Agean part and stay in active contacts with the Macedonian communities fromthe region.

The are persons who plot some theories of local rivalry and try to separate the Macedonians from the both sides of the border.

It is crucial for us to go and visit Agean Macedonia and to attach contact with our people irrespectively of having or not having relatives down there and vice versa.
It's very important to streignthen our economical and cultural relations if not the MOST important thing we should do.

Dude, 90% of Macedonian estabishments are Greek owned. Let's be realistic here, Macedonians from rom are often unwittingly and unknowingly funding Greeks when they buy milk and bread

I wouldn't exaggerate the percentual ammount but it's true that very often we do buy Greek products even if aware of their origin. That's something hard to be prohibited and even doing campaign against the purchase of Greek products it will never be fully implement in life.. or maybe only temporary.
The strategy our governments miss is the sector of strategical industries to be protected from political take over by Greek companies and economic occupation of our national market.

The examples can be found in Okta, Skopska Pivara, Stopanska Banka, Zhito Luks, Cementara, the biggest production capacity of weapon in the region- Suvenir of Samokov and all other huge players. All of them are strategical investitions covering the Macedonian super brands.
Not mentioning how Greeks are re-selling Prilepski mermer(marble) in rest of the world like Canada, Saudi Arabia as "Greek" marble.

We are simply talented for our selfdestruction, doing exactly what we shouldn't.

[Mastika]

I think you are talking out of a hand (tresesh of rakav) many assumptions insignificantly based on local patriotism rivalry.

I bet you never stayed more than a week in Bitola to see of how many young Macedonians from Kostorusko&Lerinsko enjoy their time there during the weekends or daily, going to nightclubs, hanging out with their friends from the Bitola region.

In the last 10 years the contact from the both side of the border is enourmously increased, socially, culturally and economically.

You have missed the point of my comments. People going to Halkidiki are not going there to visit relatives, they are going there to go 'na more' and to show off. For us in Australia it isnt a big thing to drive 250 km's to go somewhere and then come back the same day, however in Europe things are different. Besides, people who want to show off will stay in hotels and drink/eat at Greek restaraunts and bars, just so that they can brag in front of their friends.

As for people coming North from the Greek border, that is a different issue. Besides, lerin and Kostur are not that far from Bitola.

[Bill77]

There are a few reasons why Macedonians from ROM travel to Greece.

First of all, they have this false impresion that Greece is some powerful nation, a land of opertunities, money, history, the next best thing to USA. I got sick of the comments i kept on hearing "ahhhh Grcite se jaki" but due to restrictions in travel untill recently, and financial reasons, many have not had the opertunity to visit so they do not know better.

Another reason is showing off to friends and relatives back home. Going to Ohrid for their holidays, is like going to Bondi in Sydney for us. Where as if they go to Halkidiki, for them its like going to Bali for us, so if you are a sydney sider, which is the bigger deal?


Financial is another reason, You can get a beach apartment in Halkidiki for 20 eur a day, in Ohrid, i paid 80 eur at some places.

[Bratot]

You have missed the point of my comments. People going to Halkidiki are not going there to visit relatives, they are going there to go 'na more' and to show off. For us in Australia it isnt a big thing to drive 250 km's to go somewhere and then come back the same day, however in Europe things are different. Besides, people who want to show off will stay in hotels and drink/eat at Greek restaraunts and bars, just so that they can brag in front of their friends.

As for people coming North from the Greek border, that is a different issue. Besides, lerin and Kostur are not that far from Bitola.

Actually I didn't missed anything.

Where do you prefer to go 'na more'?

Albanija?
Crna gora/Hrvatska?
Bugarija?

Macedonian's go on these places also, would you suggest them to stay at home, to go in Ohrid and pay 2 times more expensive than to go 'na more'?

When there will be a strategy for Macedonian tourism and when the prices in Macedonia will be more available to their citizens then maybe you could criticize the people.

Everyone needs a vacation, but everyone has his limited budget.

The Greeks have offered hotel***** arrangement for 7 days for 100 euros with breakfast included, have you heard about the prices in Ohrid this year?

It's very hard to impose political influence on the economic decission of the consumers.
It's a simmilar case with the Bulgarian passports to leave Macedonia and work in EU.

Macedonian case is not a rarity in the economical behaviour.

We lack of strategy internally.

[Mastika]

Actually I didn't missed anything.

Where do you prefer to go 'na more'?

Albanija?
Crna gora/Hrvatska?
Bugarija?

Macedonian's go on these places also, would you suggest them to stay at home, to go in Ohrid and pay 2 times more expensive than to go 'na more'?

When there will be a strategy for Macedonian tourism and when the prices in Macedonia will be more available to their citizens then maybe you could criticize the people.

Everyone needs a vacation, but everyone has his limited budget.

The Greeks have offered hotel***** arrangement for 7 days for 100 euros with breakfast included, have you heard about the prices in Ohrid this year?

It's very hard to impose political influence on the economic decission of the consumers.
It's a simmilar case with the Bulgarian passports to leave Macedonia and work in EU.

Macedonian case is not a rarity in the economical behaviour.

We lack of strategy internally.

Bill was suggesting that Bij do a day trip and pack her own food. I was saying that; 1. this is often impractical and 2. that most people going to Greece aren't interested in packing their own food and leaving after a couple of hours. Most people want to stay there for a couple of days at least, to make their holiday worth while.

Instead your comments were directed at people going the OTHER way (into Macedonia).

People can go where they want for their holidays, All I'm saying is that people need not be surprised when Greece is able to spend millions of dollars fundings it 'negotiations' and attempts to negate the Macedonian identity.

[Bratot]

I don't think they are surprised, but I'm surprised when someone is expecting something by having destructive national policy.

Why not Macedonian investitions in Kostursko&Lerinsko?

Why not Macedonian hotels in Halkidiki?


There are many issues to be discussed, but ain't change a bit of Macedonian lazy mentality.