Macedonian Nationalism

[indigen]

Originally Posted by Indigen
I consider myself as a DIRECT DESCENDANT (i.e. blood, however pure) and inherit (evolving, without excluding other external inputs over time) cultural continuity from the same forbears!

Indigen, in the above quote you consider yourself to be an inheritor or 'external inputs', which indicates a mixture of foreign elements (at least to a certain degree) in the evolution of Macedonians.

I am not excluding external blood inputs somewhere in the past but I am not claiming any either. My parents, grandparents and great grandparents (Father's and mother's paternal line only) are ALL Macedonians. The reference to external input/s is in relation to culture as applies to the base evolving indigenous MACEDONIAN CULTURE. The discovery of America by Columbus and the introduction of various new foods into Europe, amongst other places, would be one major import. The chilli - PIPERKA as a staple food of the Macedonian peasant is but one example.

MONGREL-BREED FRUIT SALAD

What exactly do you mean by 'mongrel-breed fruit salad'?

Some of the proponents of the "Slav Macedonian" theory (i.e. the mass invasion of "Slavs" into Macedonia, amongst other areas), unable to sustain such a bogus claim, are now retouching it by presenting in a modified form whereby they may now include ancient Macedonians/indigenous elements in a mix with "Slavs" and a whole bunch of others (fruit salad) who have equal or greater importance than the indigenous element. These same proponents generally will imply that the incoming "Slavs" encountered the "Latinised remnants" of the indigenous (ancient) Macedonians - THE VLACHS and thereby implying the Macedonians are a new creation - Fruit SALAD of "Slavs", Vlachs, and etc.!


----------------
m-r Pandil Kosturski: KOGA "IZUMREA " ANTICKITE MAKEDONCI? [NM, 1992]


A. Donski - Koj saka da im ja amputira antichkata istorija i poteklo na Makedoncite?

[indigen]

[QUOTE=aleksandrov;66047]

“.....The terms “Slav Macedonian” has not been and never will be accepted by the Macedonian community in Australia and abroad as it is a vilification and denial of Macedonians’ cultural, ethnic and national identity.

The term “Slav Macedonian” is an offensive slogan of propaganda used by Greek and other oppressors of the Macedonian people in order to usurp the heritage, suppress the identity and deny the existence of the indigenous Macedonians....”

The above two paragraphs are excerpted from the media release and public statement “The National Position of the Macedonian-Australian Community against the Slav-Prefix directive”, issued March 1994 and ENDORSED BY ALL MACEDONIAN ORGANISATIONS IN AUSTRALIA...

I think I remember writing and advocating those paragraphs (as a co-author of the media release) at the age of 20. 16 years later, I have changed my outlook on many things, but not on that. The only thing I would probably change is the use of the term 'vilification' in that way. It kind of implies that being a "Slav" is something evil, yet I don't really know what it is.

Good to know that you uphold the principles of our community of that time! IMO, there is no need to change a thing as you got it right the first time. There is NO SUCH THING AS A "SLAV" and being called one IS A VILIFICATION and denial of Macedonians’ cultural, ethnic and national identity.

[aleksandrov]

It's a biological law Aleksandrov, every single genetic anylise so far have provided clear genetical diversity in every single human being, which is pretty much logical....

To avoid giving you more opportunities for convoluting the discussion or engaging red herring, I will deal with one point at a time from here:

I asked you for evidence of your claims about our mixed ETHNIC genes, in the same way you asked me for evidence of genetic continuity of my ethnic genes since ancient time.

If there is as much evidence around as you claim, you should be able to cite it. If you can't, be intelligent and honorable enough to admit that you have no evidence, just like I have admitted that I have no evidence of my ethnic continuity of my genes since ancient times.

[indigen]

Not wanting to steal DimkoPiperkatas thunder from the thread

Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > General Discussions
Why do we post so many topics about Greeks?

I have posted here as the name of the above thread doesn’t seem quite right.

I just wanted to ask one question.

If as RTG says
Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > General Discussions
Why do we post so many topics about Greeks?
Greece represents our biggest threat to maintaining our identity in the world arena.
Greece does this by attempting to trivialise and denigrate our identity.

And SoM says
Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > General Discussions
Why do we post so many topics about Greeks?
In answer to the original question, the quantity of topics about Greeks is a direct response to the quantity of propaganda that they criminally spread against the Macedonians to their own people and the rest of the world. We must respond to their stupidity and lies, and we will meet them at every challenge, and win this fight.

Then isn’t the core question with regards to our identity are we

1. direct decedents of the Macedonians of Alexanders time or

2. were the Macedonians of Alexanders time originally something different to us and our ancestors were newcomers who either mixed with these ancient Macedonians to produce us and if so when and if they were something different then who were they kin to or

3. were superseded by our ancestors and if so when. Was this action complete or did it force the ancient Macedonians south or out.

These are pretty much the only options.

In general the Greeks assert
1. the ancient Macedonians were something different to our ancestors and that they were kin to the ancient Greeks.

2. They further assert that they are the direct decedents of the ancient Greeks and as the ancient Macedonians were there kin then they also are the decedents of the ancient Macedonians.

3. The so called concession they are making is to acknowledge that our ancestors may have mix with some of the ancient Macedonians to produce us and as such we are a kind of Macedonian or

4. Our ancestors have been there so long we have become a kind of Macedonian with minimal mixing in either case we are a kind of Macedonian hence the demand for a qualifier beit Northern ect.

Does it not seem obvious that to conclusively answer these questions a timeline needs to be established with evidence we are Macedonians beginning with modern times working backwards to Alexanders ancient Macedonians whom both sides seem to agree were Macedonians. A shorter answer would be to establish the ancient Macedonians were not kin to the Greeks. The obvious dilemma to this is the lack of physical written evidence due to the supposed no written Macedonian alphabet but nonetheless as can be found on MTO there is much evidence to support the Macedonian case.

It seems to me that the Greeks have been able to peddle their lies unabated because the Macedonians have never been free to counter until now and also because the west has been in cahoots with the Greeks. Is it not possible to collate and present another inconvenient truth to the world. When they have no answer to the truth it defeats any name negotiations and posses at least a serious question about the rights of Macedonians in the occupied lands if not further as to what is to be done to land that is clearly foreign occupied.

Some have questioned do we need to prove a link to Alexanders day. This is the only accepted by all time that the people were Macedonians.

Very good take, given the doubts I had/have about your genuinity as an Ozi Mak!

[indigen]

Aleksandrov,

I hold no animosity for anyone but don't underestimate me and trying to be Indigen rescuer when he repeatedly confirmed his racistic claim about the how he comprehend the "continuity".

I don't need anyone to be my defense attorney but I have NO INTENTION of WASTING TIME ON YOUR INCOMPREHENSIBLE RAMBLINGS! Thus if you try to use anything I post in order to make some point with Aleksandrov, Vangelovski, or others, they should be able to challenge your claims.

He doesn't have to use the exact term 'purity' in order to qualify his claim of 'genetical continuity' opposite from the "salad" in order to be "direct" descendant.

Blah, blah, blah...you are a CONFUSED MALAKA, IMO!

What could "salad" means if not some proportion of foreign genes and than logically it's about being 'pure', hmm? Or you will continue ignoring the sane logic?

You are insane!

Well... according to Indigen we are 'direct' descedants.

YES! Anti-Macedonians find it such an evil thought - tought titties then! :-)

But you should ask your self what is such absurdal claim suggesting in line with the "clean" genetical continuity?

Where did anybody mention "clean"? We are in the main INDIGENOUS MACEDONIAN IN BLOOD AND CULTURE and, IMHO, whoever does not like that, can burn in hell for eternity!

So, talking about such 'genetic continuity' and holding so tightly about it, in order to provide some imagined condition to prove our indigenous existance can be very easy harmful to the clear meaning of being a Macedonian today.

KE?
FYI: Genetic=Blood! Krvta ne e voda za da ispari!

When I said that we shouldn't get into the Greek trap of " proving the direct ancestry " if we want to be called Macedonians I had on mind exactly what Indigen is doing.

You are acting as TM's advocate and are posting contradictory claims all over the place.

We do have a genetical continuity, but it's a continuity we share with all of the populations surrounding us in a wider regional meaning.

And you know this for certain and that we share exactly the same markers with Albanians, Greeks, Bulgars, Slovenes, Hungarians, Romanians, Turks, Roms, Turks, Serbs, Croats, etc?

We are not able to define the genes of our Macedonian ancestors and even if we do, they will also show a diversity rate since the transmition of the genetical matherial is not a isolated process, and they will also share that matherial with the rest of the ancient Balkan populations as we do today.

Ancient Balkan (Macedonian Peninsula) ancestry is great for our cause, you boof-head! It completely counters aggressive Gheg and Greek claims that we are "Slav" invaders on the native "Illyrian" and "Hellenic" land!

But if we chose the path of Indigen logics, than every our neighboor will be equally or nearly genetical 'Macedonian' as we are.

NONSENSE and GIBBERISH!

Стани МАКЕДОНИЈО, крени знаме високо
сонце АЛЕКСАНДРОВО, знаме баш македонско,
Стани Македонијо, викни свои синови,
земја да се одбрани, земја баш македонска

YouTube - ‪Macedonia,Suzana Spasovska - STANI MAKEDONIJO Goce Fest 2002‬‎

Земјо МАКЕДОНИЈО ништо не те плашеше
Смело низ вековите народот те градеше.
Гордо МАКЕДОНИЈО чекори кон сонцето
Чеда АЛЕКСАНДРОВИ со вас е вистината!

Гордо МАКЕДОНИЈО чекори кон сонцето
Чеда АЛЕКСАНДРОВИ со вас е вистината!

Гордо МАКЕДОНИЈО!!!

YouTube - ‪Suzana Spasovska "GORDO MAKEDONIJO "‬‎

Nie ne sme Grci
Bugari ni Srbi
Cheda sme na Aleksandar
Gordost Makedonska

Edna misla imame
Eden zhivot zhiveeme
Makedonia cela da e

YouTube - ‪Edna misla imame | Една миŃ�ла имаме‬‎

[Onur]

When I said that we shouldn't get into the Greek trap of " proving the direct ancestry " if we want to be called Macedonians I had on mind exactly what Indigen is doing.

Who have ever seen such condition to be made in order to be fulfilled from some group of people to have the right to identify themselfs with their ancestors who lived 24 centuries ago?

It's very clear to me, what they want to achieve with this trap, since it's basicaly impossible to track such genealogy and it's biological absurd to preserve the exactly same genetic matherial with your ancient ancestors.

You are right Bratot. This is a Greek trap and it`s sad to see some people here lured with it. This is some kind of competition that you can never win because you cannot beat the Greek propaganda machine on this issue. They have 200 years of delusional material which have already been accepted as truth by many.

Also, why you should think that you have to be direct descendant of ancient Macedonians to consider yourself as indigenous here? This is also against human nature. The culture of societies evolves in time with connections of other societies. No one invents everything as their own. This idea is even against the philosophy of Alexander the Great as we knew because his Empire was multi-cultural too.

One good example can be the Hungarians who both culturally and ethnically significantly differ from their surrounding:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17632797

and tell me, in your opinion Aleksandrov, does the modern Hungarians have lost the right to be 'Hungarians' anymore since they cannot provide genetical continuity with their ancient ancestors?

Hungarians today, preserves their Eurasian roots in terms of culture, including their language but genetically, they have been mixed with the western european populations like Germans and all other people in Balkans. As far as i know, western european racial ideas didn't spread among them and today, they enjoy their Euroasian roots and they don't let it disappear.



So, according to Indigen`s philosophy, Hungarians should be "MONGREL-BREED FRUIT SALAD" too, like the Turks, hehe

[Bratot]

Some of the proponents of the "Slav Macedonian" theory (i.e. the mass invasion of "Slavs" into Macedonia, amongst other areas), unable to sustain such a bogus claim, are now retouching it by presenting in a modified form whereby they may now include ancient Macedonians/indigenous elements in a mix with "Slavs" and a whole bunch of others (fruit salad) who have equal or greater importance than the indigenous element. These same proponents generally will imply that the incoming "Slavs" encountered the "Latinised remnants" of the indigenous (ancient) Macedonians - THE VLACHS and thereby implying the Macedonians are a new creation - Fruit SALAD of "Slavs", Vlachs, and etc.!

You are beyond any logic and your effort to include some "Slav" threat by admitting you share some proportion of those proposed to be "Slav" genes it goes in line with those who are trying to give greater significance to one (marked as Slav) proportion of genes in order to eliminate or neutralize the other.


First of all, it's very very easy to get in a blind debate when one doesn't possess even the basic knowledge about certain issues he makes conclussions of.

There are no "Slav" genes but a most common genetical matherial appearing in the Slav "speaking" population in Europe, nor the Ra1 marker can be accepted as one by the panslavic theories who would like to present it that way.

If you take any genetical map available on the source I recomended to you, will clearly see that the Ra1 marker appears in a varriety of geographycal regions, such as - Eastern Asia China, India, Caucasus, Central-Eastern Europe, Scandinavia and in many other places where was never recorded that the Slav migration occured (like Scottland or Crete), so the only conclussion about Ra1 is that the 10% or 15% of this genetical marker are much older and have existed before any "migration" theory was proposed to have occured in the past.

http://www.ethnoancestry.com/R1a.html

Even the modern 'Slavic' peoples come from a wide variety of genetic backgrounds.


The genetic argumentation we need to hold on, without interfering some 'ethnic' genetical continuity, is this:

The three groups of humans had taken refuge for so long that their DNA had naturally picked up mutations, and consequently can be defined into different haplogroups. As they spread from these refuges, Haplogroups R1b, I and R1a propagated across Europe.

- Haplogroup R1b is common on the western Atlantic coast as far as Scotland.
- Haplogroup I is common across central Europe and up into Scandinavia.
- Haplogroup R1a is common in eastern Europe and has also spread across into central Asia and as far as India and Pakistan

http://www.dnaheritage.com/masterclass2.asp

http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf

and

Hierarchical analysis of 28 Y-chromosome SNP’s in the
population of the Republic of Macedonia
P. Noveski
, S. Trivodalieva, G. D. Efremov, D. Plaseska-Karanfilska;

Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts, Research Centre for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology, Skopje,
Republic of Macedonia.
Analysis of Y-chromosome haplogroups, defined by single nucleotide
polymorphisms (SNP’s), has become a standard approach for studying the origin of human populations and measuring the variability among them.
Furthermore, Y-SNP’s represent a new forensic tool, because
their population specificity may allow to determine the origin of any
male sample of interest for forensic purposes. The aim of this study was to develop a strategy for rapid, simple and inexpensive Y-chromosome SNP’s typing in the population of R. Macedonia.
We have studied a total of 343 DNA male samples; 211 Macedonians, 111 Albanians and 21 of other ethnic origin (Roma, Serbs and Turks).
Methodology included multiplex PCR and single nucleotide extension reaction by SNaPshot multiplex kit. The set of 28 markers has been grouped in 5 multiplexes in order to determine the most frequent haplogroups using only 1 or 2 multiplexes. Twenty different Y haplogroups were determined among 343 male DNA samples.
The finding that five haplogroups (E3b1, I1b1, J2b1a, R1a and R1b) comprise more than 70% of the Y chromosomes is consistent with the typical European Y chromosome gene pool. The distribution of the Y-haplogroups differs between Macedonians and Albanians. The most common Y haplogroup among Macedonians is I1b1 (27.5%), followed by three haplogroups present with similar frequencies E3b1 (15.6%), R1a (14.2%) and R1b
(11.4%). Among Albanians the most frequent Y haplogroup is E3b1 (28.8%), followed by R1b (18.0%), J2b1a (13.5%) and R1a (12.6%).

It is very important to note that membership in a particular haplogroup does not (by itself) indicate the ethnic group from which the patrilineal line derives


And here is something for rethinking:

At the time of Ötzi 5.300 years ago,the autohtonus “Macedonians” and “Basques” shared a trade language.
To this day the features and items associated with the Iceman have similar names in Basque and in Macedonian language.


Petr Jandáček-Prebivalstvo na tleh Srednje Evrope p.17-20
127 La Senda Rd, Los Alamos, NM 87544, USA
E-mail: [email protected] [email protected]

GOAT-SKINS have been used in antiquity for water vessels and BELLOWS. GOAT-SKIN bellows were needed for the smelting of copper for OTZI's axe-head. OTZI had with him at least 3 parts of an ibex goat.

It is a natural step to combine a wood-wind musical instrument with goat-skin bellows and come up with a type of bag-pipes. The Basques call this instrument GAITA.
Such instrument is also used by Slovaks and their neighbors (Ruthenians, Czechs & Guralu Poles) who call it GAJDA. Creatures possessing HUMAN & GOAT CHARACTERISTICS & PLAYING WOOD-WIND INSTRUMENTS have been depicted on walls of caves more than 25.000 years ago.

http://www.laschools.net/146120827151657640/blank/browse.asp?A=383&BMDRN=2000&BCOB=0&C=54843

Well.. we have GAJDA as well the Scottish, so do we need really to invent some absurdal claims in order to satisfy the Greek propaganda?

Or this is enough to be calm and confident about our INDIGENOUS origin and culture?

If for you Indigen those 15% mean that the population in Macedonia came from behind Karpatians you have a big problem with the idea of those percentage and what they actually mean.

Since they are confirmed to exist today, it's about 14 centuries(after the 6 A.D.) when they could possibly "arrive" not related to any proposed "Slavic" migration, but recent occurance.

I wont even try to suggest how will look our genetic picture after another 14 centuries, God forbid it.

It's time we end this "genetical" paranoia and focus on some more reasonable and productive for us.

Haplogroup I1b

The undifferentiated subclade of Haplogroup I1b (or I1b*) is centered in the Balkans, where its founders may have taken refuge from the Ice Age. After the Ice Age, I1b* spread into Eastern Europe...

I1b Haplotype #2

This haplotype exhibits its highest European frequencies in Poland, Macedonia and Italy. There are also hits in Sweden and Saxony.

Enough clear?

And if any of you have any remarks about the "Slav" threat please visit this thread:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4002

[George S.]

Tradition has played a lot in macedonian culture & there's heaps of books written on how it has evolved all on it's own.For example the customs observed in weddings,music etc etc.Also the clothes the macedonians wore there are so many things.The culture didn't just happen hokus pokus poof presto magic.It has evolved over many thousands of years passed on from mother to daughter father to son etcetc .The macedonian culture is ine evidence that can't be refuted there's ample proof of it's development & existence.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Some of the proponents of the "Slav Macedonian" theory (i.e. the mass invasion of "Slavs" into Macedonia, amongst other areas), unable to sustain such a bogus claim, are now retouching it by presenting in a modified form whereby they may now include ancient Macedonians/indigenous elements in a mix with "Slavs" and a whole bunch of others (fruit salad) who have equal or greater importance than the indigenous element. These same proponents generally will imply that the incoming "Slavs" encountered the "Latinised remnants" of the indigenous (ancient) Macedonians - THE VLACHS and thereby implying the Macedonians are a new creation - Fruit SALAD of "Slavs", Vlachs, and etc.!

Has anybody indicated as such (in the manner you have implied, particularly the underlined) at the MTO?

[indigen]

Has anybody indicated as such (in the manner you have implied, particularly the underlined) at the MTO?

I don't keep track of many topics or posters here on MTO and thus I can't say for sure but I think there are a few who would adhere to the official RM national narrative, as taught in schools for generations since 1945. Some may post elsewhere such ideological positions whilst MTO members may (or do) hold them in high esteem in general. Some may just applaud such views when expressed by others (especially at other fora) and then completely oppose those advocating Macedonian indigenity on MTO.

To cut it short, I know of a couple of MTO members who have expressed such views in full or in part and some of that has been posted here on MTO by myself but I do not wish to escalate this issue any further at this time. So please let sleeping dogs lie as there are more important issues to focus on.

[Bratot]

To avoid giving you more opportunities for convoluting the discussion or engaging red herring, I will deal with one point at a time from here:

I asked you for evidence of your claims about our mixed ETHNIC genes, in the same way you asked me for evidence of genetic continuity of my ethnic genes since ancient time.

If there is as much evidence around as you claim, you should be able to cite it. If you can't, be intelligent and honorable enough to admit that you have no evidence, just like I have admitted that I have no evidence of my ethnic continuity of my genes since ancient times.

You have lost this subject before even entered it and now you trying to save some face.

You really need and have to study a lil bit more about the genetic background and than enter such debate.

Your existence today wouldn't be possible if there was no genetical mixing. It's kind of silly what you are asking me, but I'm honourable enough not to make a fun of it.


Take account what I already posted in my previous post and add this:

Hierarchical analysis of 28 Y-chromosome SNP’s in the
population of the Republic of Macedonia
P. Noveski
, S. Trivodalieva, G. D. Efremov, D. Plaseska-Karanfilska;

Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts, Research Centre for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology, Skopje,
Republic of Macedonia.
Analysis of Y-chromosome haplogroups, defined by single nucleotide
polymorphisms (SNP’s), has become a standard approach for studying the origin of human populations and measuring the variability among them.
Furthermore, Y-SNP’s represent a new forensic tool, because
their population specificity may allow to determine the origin of any
male sample of interest for forensic purposes. The aim of this study was to develop a strategy for rapid, simple and inexpensive Y-chromosome SNP’s typing in the population of R. Macedonia.
We have studied a total of 343 DNA male samples; 211 Macedonians, 111 Albanians and 21 of other ethnic origin (Roma, Serbs and Turks).
Methodology included multiplex PCR and single nucleotide extension reaction by SNaPshot multiplex kit. The set of 28 markers has been grouped in 5 multiplexes in order to determine the most frequent haplogroups using only 1 or 2 multiplexes. Twenty different Y haplogroups were determined among 343 male DNA samples.
The finding that five haplogroups (E3b1, I1b1, J2b1a, R1a and R1b) comprise more than 70% of the Y chromosomes is consistent with the typical European Y chromosome gene pool. The distribution of the Y-haplogroups differs between Macedonians and Albanians. The most common Y haplogroup among Macedonians is I1b1 (27.5%), followed by three haplogroups present with similar frequencies E3b1 (15.6%), R1a (14.2%) and R1b
(11.4%). Among Albanians the most frequent Y haplogroup is E3b1 (28.8%), followed by R1b (18.0%), J2b1a (13.5%) and R1a (12.6%).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11260506?dopt=Abstract

http://www.makedonika.org/processpaid.aspcontentid=ti.2001.pdf

You have graphic presentation.

http://www.igenea.com/index.php?content=49&id=40

Y-haplogroups in Macedonia

I2a 32 %
E1b1b 25 %
J2 20 %
R1a 15 %
R1b 8 %

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118742265/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

A phylogenetic tree constructed on the basis of the high-resolution data deriving from other populations revealed the clustering of Macedonians together with other Balkan populations (Greeks, Croats, Turks and Romanians) and Sardinians, close to another "European" cluster consisting of the Italian, French, Danish, Polish and Spanish populations'

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118904328/abstract

Phylogenetic and correspondence analyses showed that Bulgarians are more closely related to Macedonians, Greeks, and Romanians than to other European populations and Middle Eastern people living near the Mediterranean

http://www.springerlink.com/content/8300nn2q37527183/

Phylogenetic analysis based on HLA allele frequencies shows that Bulgarians were characterized with closest genetic similarity to Macedonians, Greeks, Romanians, Cretans and Sardinians in comparison to the other European and Mediterranean populations.

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v11/n7/full/5200992a.html

Haplogroups R1a and R1b showed the opposite frequency distribution to I-M170 and were more common in the northwest among the mainland population and in the northern island Krk. The frequency of R1b in Croatian sample (7.9%) is comparable to some other Balkan populations, for example, Macedonian (10%),41 Greek (11%) and Yugoslavian (11%),33
The average frequency of R1a in Croatian mainland population (34%) is similar to the value of other Slavs, for example, Macedonians (35%), Czechs and Slovaks (27%).41

http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/Science_2000_v290_p1155.pdf

Graphics.

http://www.fsijournal.org/article/S0379-0738(04)00820-5/abstract

Observed allelic frequency distribution and locus diversity values in Macedonians correspond closer to neighboring southeastern European populations than (mostly) western European populations

Sixty-six (78.57%) haplotypes appeared in single copies in Macedonians

most frequent Macedonian haplotypes (DYS19-DYS385-DYS389I-DYS389II-DYS390-DYS391-DYS392-DYS393) 16-14/15-13-31-24-11-11-13 and 13-16/18-13-30-24-10-11-13 were found in 7 and 6 copies, respectively.

Total haplotype diversity was 0.9885±0.0058 (Macedonians)

http://kinoko.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~duraid/stolen_science/The_Origin_of_Palestinians_and_Their_Genetic_Relatedness_With_Other_Mediterranean_Populations.pdf

Palestinians are close to Egyptians, Lebanese, Iranians,
Cretans, Macedonians and Sardinians, and also to
Algerians, Spaniards, French, Italians and Basques
(Table 3, Figures 4, 5, and 6).

And Graphics.

http://e20.manu.edu.mk/prilozi/05e.pdf

The results of the comparison of the researched alleles indicate relatively
small genetic distances among the researched populations. The obtained
dendrograms indicate a larger homogeneity in the large Balkan populations, and
a manifest trend of separating the Aromanian population of the Štip region. A
larger separation is characteristic in the Greek population of Thrace.

There was a simmilar thread on MTO:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=256

And here it is how such absurdal claims produced by lack of basic knowledge have give another weapon to the Greek propaganda:

http://macedonia-evidence.org/victor-friedman.html

[aleksandrov]

Bratot,

Are you going to continue patting yourself on the back indefinitely or will you start providing some direct answers to specific questions? Use a dictionary if you must.

Do you know what the word 'cite' means?

Do you know what 'evidence' means?

Do you know what the word 'ethnic' means?

What does 'ethnic genes' mean?

What does "mixed ethnic genes" mean?

What does What kind of specific evidence did I ask you to cite?

[aleksandrov]

[QUOTE=indigen;66169]

Good to know that you uphold the principles of our community of that time! IMO, there is no need to change a thing as you got it right the first time. There is NO SUCH THING AS A "SLAV" and being called one IS A VILIFICATION and denial of Macedonians’ cultural, ethnic and national identity.

I am just not sure that the 'vilification' is the most appropriate word to use to describe what you are trying to say and what I was trying to say at the time.

[Bratot]

Aleksandrov,

I'm done with my explanations, if your aren't still capable to comprehend it than I leave it to somebody else to help you.

Everyone has his limit of tolerance and I think you used mine totally.

Irrespective of what you will try to insinuate next, every reasonable person not tendentious will understand what I exhaustedly explained and supported myself.

If you want to go in a circle, you do it alone.

With respect,
Mihail

[aleksandrov]

That could have been a plausible exit strategy, only if you were able to delete all the evidence of who has said what on this thread, Bratot. Would you like me to help you delete it? Is being a false 'winner' is more important to you than the truth?