Macedonian Think tank!

[Bratot]

Unfortunatelly we will face worsen scenario in close months.

This is the new propaganda spin served on our table by the same machinery of ESI:

"Find a solution that would delay the big concession"

"The two sides are not currently prepared for tough decisions and therefore we propose a solution that does not require both parties to make major concessions now" explained expert from the European Stability Initiative, Kristof Bender.

http://www.esiweb.org/index.php?lang=en&id=279&person_ID=3

"Our proposal is not to change the name of the country for a promise to join the EU sometime in the future. This will be difficult, given the lack of trust between Skopje and Athens. We suggest something else: Macedonia to change its name to the Constitution, by name, for example, "Vardar Macedonia" or something similar, while standing provision that the name change will take effect the day when Macedonia becomes a member of EU. This also means that if Macedonia does not join the Union, the change will become ineffective."

http://novamakedonija.com.mk/NewsDetal.asp?vest=920101017401&id=9&setIzdanie=22087

As you are able to see, this is the Greek frame for achieving success:

1.
When the countries name changes, Greece will look at sorting out the language/ethnicity issues that will arise.
2.
This will be stage 2 of the Macedonian question that is being played out here.

As a confirmation of my words these are the EU actions:


" In the EC response, president Jose Manuel Barroso confirms it is true they used standard names until recently, but a decision was passed in the summer of 2008 to change this. Thus, in the interinstitutional style guide, released by the Office for Official Publications of the European Communities, term "Macedonian" and international code "MK" have been replaced with "to be defined". <( stage 2) The Commission has confirmed that all references in documents and publications were in strict compliance with Resolution 817/93 of the UN Security Council.

According to Meijer, the Commission has given a symbolic gift to satisfy Greece when denying the use of word "Macedonian" about the language and the people. "

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/6201/45/

[Bratot]

Something to worry us, not something we didn't expected but surely we chosed to hope for better. Anyway, this is the main news for today:

"На референдум пред македонските граѓани ќе се најде наредниот предлог за името што ќе го даде посредникот Метју Нимиц, дури и во случај Владата да не застане зад таквиот предлог. Владини извори брифираат дека референдум сигурно ќе има ако Грција го прифати предлогот и доколку за пакетот на Нимиц се јави позитивно мислење во одредени кругови во земјава. Поради силниот притисок од Брисел и од Вашингтон, Владата одлучила да распише референдум дури и Нимиц да излезе со предлог што не е прифатлив за македонската преговарачка страна. "


" On the referendum for the name the next suggestion given by the mediator Matthew Nimetz will find place in front of the Macedonian citizens, even if the government will not stand behind such a proposal. From the Government sources briefing that a referendum would certainly happen if Greece accepts the proposal and if the package of Nimitz get positive opinion in certain circles in the country. Due to the strong pressure from Brussels and Washington, the government decided to hold a referendum even if Nimetz come up with a proposal that is not acceptable for the Macedonian negotiating side."

source: http://novamakedonija.com.mk/NewsDet...tIzdanie=22087

[Bratot]

Bratot I am enjoying this topic. I would like to know your opinion on the EU re-writing history and if you think that this agendas shadow drapes over the Macedonian "name issue"? Here is the topic - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=1038

I certainly don't think it's a coincidence what we testify on our own skin today and the long term EU policy of re-writing the history for the purpose of their sick agendas.

It's good you reminded us of that thread, very useful indeed. Thank you TM.

[TrueMacedonian]

Something to worry us, not something we didn't expected but surely we chosed to hope for better. Anyway, this is the main news for today:

"На референдум пред македонските граѓани ќе се најде наредниот предлог за името што ќе го даде посредникот Метју Нимиц, дури и во случај Владата да не застане зад таквиот предлог. Владини извори брифираат дека референдум сигурно ќе има ако Грција го прифати предлогот и доколку за пакетот на Нимиц се јави позитивно мислење во одредени кругови во земјава. Поради силниот притисок од Брисел и од Вашингтон, Владата одлучила да распише референдум дури и Нимиц да излезе со предлог што не е прифатлив за македонската преговарачка страна. "


" On the referendum for the name the next suggestion given by the mediator Matthew Nimetz will find place in front of the Macedonian citizens, even if the government will not stand behind such a proposal. From the Government sources briefing that a referendum would certainly happen if Greece accepts the proposal and if the package of Nimitz get positive opinion in certain circles in the country. Due to the strong pressure from Brussels and Washington, the government decided to hold a referendum even if Nimetz come up with a proposal that is not acceptable for the Macedonian negotiating side."

source: http://novamakedonija.com.mk/NewsDet...tIzdanie=22087

This is truly diabolical. Bratot this is an important topic that should be stickied imo.

[TrueMacedonian]

I certainly don't think it's a coincidence what we testify on our own skin today and the long term EU policy of re-writing the history for the purpose of their sick agendas.

It's good you reminded us of that thread, very useful indeed. Thank you TM.

Bratot it seems that the EU's ideological battle for the European mind is reminiscent of what the Philhellenes did in what became grcija - http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3734

European Union Rewrites History

From the desk of Elaib Harvey on Thu, 2009-01-08 11:03

The European Union is slowly trying to rewrite history to its own benefit. We have the President of the Parliament's own little vanity project, the House of European History, which is causing controversy, and we have the Euro Clio project, with its slightly sinister subset Connecting Europe.

According to Euro Clio

Education policies and regulations are commonly decided by national governments. In history this results in a focus that is very nationally oriented. Research by EUROCLIO confirms that the national dimension in history education is overrepresented, whereas the regional, European and international dimensions are underrepresented.
The disadvantage of a dominantly national approach is a distortion in historical events. The EUROCLIO Annual Meetings have always been a way to increase the European Dimension.
History educators from all over Europe have addressed a variety of topics and good practice that broadened their perspectives. Furthermore, EUROCLIO uses of trainers from a variety of European countries and beyond it all its project work. This transnational cooperation also increases the European dimension of history education and reduces the risk of a national bias in the developed material.

You get the idea.

Flicking through the "Connecting Europe Through History" booklet one can find on page 4 a picture of the storming of the Bastille. The caption reads:

Storming the Bastille: 1789 was a turning point in establishing human rights in Europe

Well I suppose you could say that. It was the precursor to all the ghastly ideological regime's who have murdered millions in the name of ideology. The "Quartering of the Vendee" was the first time that a form of genocide was practiced against a largely civilian population because they rejected a political ideology. Estimates of the dead range from 120,000 to 600,000.

Yes they are right. I suppose it did usher in a new era of human rights in Europe.

However, my favourite European history project is the Franco-German textbook, whose lead author Professor Marcel Spisser – an Alsatian Frenchman – spoke at a conference in Brussels last Tuesday about the troubles they had getting the academics to agree...

There was a big clash at the first meeting [of the editorial team of academics] a content problem. Was it about the Versailles Treaty or international relations post 1945?
No it wasn't about that at all, it was about the barbarian invasions.
"Barbarians – Are you calling the Germans Barbarians!!!".

It appears that in Germany the waves of Goths, Visigoths, Vandals and not least Huns are referred to as 'the movement of peoples' rather than 'the barbarian invasions.'

[TrueMacedonian]

Bratot I wonder if you would agree with my take on something here. First something on the EU's "House of European History" - http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/...081216IPR44855

EP Bureau decides to set up a "House of European History"

Institutions - 16-12-2008 - 14:46

General


On Monday evening the European Parliament's Bureau unanimously took the decision to set up a "House of European History".


The Bureau decided on the following initial steps for the practical work of the setting-up phase:

Endorsed the conceptual basis for the establishment of the House of European History on the basis already outlined by the committee of experts and upon which the Bureau had already held a discussion on 19 November.
The report titled "Conceptual Basis for a House of European History" was drawn up by an expert committee of nine high-ranking European historians and museum experts chaired by Professor Hans Walter Hütter, President of the Foundation of the House of the History of the Federal Republic of Germany.
The establishment of a political oversight committee.
The establishment of a high-ranking experts' advisory board.
The President will work closely with the Secretary General and the chairman of the committee of experts in order to make proposals to the Bureau for the composition of these two bodies.
The establishment of a small administrative start-up team responsible for defining administrative structures of the House, making contact with the relevant public authorities, defining the infrastructural needs of the House, providing assistance to a high-level Academic Committee, and preparing the first compilation of original artefacts.

The Bureau also unanimously took note of a letter from the Chairwoman of the European Parliament's Committee on Education and Culture, Katerina Batzeli, which presented the support of the Committee for the project and laid out a series of proposals for its realisation.

Parliament's President Hans-Gert Pöttering welcomed the decision of the Bureau and said: "The House of European History will bring Europe's history alive for everyone, but especially young people, and will thereby help promote an awareness of European identity."

When outlining the programme for his presidency on 13 February 2007, Parliament's President Hans-Gert Pöttering called for a House of European History to be set up. Parliament's Bureau unanimously welcomed this suggestion on 10 December 2007 following a wide-ranging debate and convened the committee of experts, who agreed on their project by consensus on 15 September 2008.

EP Vice-President Miguel Angel Martínez Martínez followed the work of the experts' committee as the representative of Parliament's Bureau. The concept was presented to Parliament's Bureau on 19 November 2008 by the chairman of the committee of experts, Professor Hans Walter Hütter.

Members of the committee of experts:

Włodzimierz Borodziej (PL), Professor of Modern History, University of Warsaw
Giorgio Cracco (IT), Professor of Ecclesiastical History, University of Turin
Michel Dumoulin (BE), Professor of History, Catholic University of Louvain (Louvain-la-Neuve)
Hans Walter Hütter (DE), Professor, President of the Foundation "House of the History of the Federal Republic of Germany ", Bonn
Marie-Hélène Joly (FR), Head Curator, Deputy Director of History, Cultural Heritage and Archives, French Defence Ministry
Matti Klinge (FI), Emeritus Professor for Nordic History, University of Helsinki
Ronald de Leeuw (NL), Professor, former director of the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam
António Reis (PT), Professor of History, New University of Lisbon
Maria Schmidt (HU), Director of the Museum "House of Terror", Budapest

REF.: 20081216IPR44855

Last updated: 16 December 2008



Here's a sentence that I think incriminates the scum of the EU;

Parliament's President Hans-Gert Pöttering welcomed the decision of the Bureau and said: "The House of European History will bring Europe's history alive for everyone, but especially young people, and will thereby help promote an awareness of European identity."

Bratot would you agree that there seems to be not only a "name issue" with modern "greece" but also an ideological battle with the EU to annihilate the Macedonian identity to usher in a brand new Euro identity in its place? Re-writing history to garner some false plastic Euro identity in order to fall into place behind the chauvenists?

[Risto the Great]

The diminishing of the Macedonian identity started with the phanariot attacks on the Ohrid archbishopric and will end with the EU ... one way or another.

The "Europeanidentity" sounds like utter bullshit.

"Our proposal is not to change the name of the country for a promise to join the EU sometime in the future. This will be difficult, given the lack of trust between Skopje and Athens. We suggest something else: Macedonia to change its name to the Constitution, by name, for example, "Vardar Macedonia" or something similar, while standing provision that the name change will take effect the day when Macedonia becomes a member of EU. This also means that if Macedonia does not join the Union, the change will become ineffective."

Wow, that sounds reasonable! Thanks EU. Perhaps not.

[machorot]

As a confirmation of my words these are the EU actions:


" In the EC response, president Jose Manuel Barroso confirms it is true they used standard names until recently, but a decision was passed in the summer of 2008 to change this. Thus, in the interinstitutional style guide, released by the Office for Official Publications of the European Communities, term "Macedonian" and international code "MK" have been replaced with "to be defined". <( stage 2) The Commission has confirmed that all references in documents and publications were in strict compliance with Resolution 817/93 of the UN Security Council.

According to Meijer, the Commission has given a symbolic gift to satisfy Greece when denying the use of word "Macedonian" about the language and the people. "

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/6201/45/

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

The EC's interinstitutional style guide refers to the language as 'македонски', and points to the ISO 639 standard which, in English, is 'Macedonian', mk - mkd - mac. This is indisputable worldwide.

[TrueMacedonian]

The diminishing of the Macedonian identity started with the phanariot attacks on the Ohrid archbishopric and will end with the EU ... one way or another.

Risto I used to believe this myself. But I doubt very much that the Phanariots wanted to "Hellenize" Macedonia considering none (Hellenes: imposter or real) existed in 1776.

[Bratot]

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

The EC's interinstitutional style guide refers to the language as 'македонски', and points to the ISO 639 standard which, in English, is 'Macedonian', mk - mkd - mac. This is indisputable worldwide.

It was an old information but surely not a speculation, they did erased it back in 2008, and probably saw they couldn't find adequate explanation as for their decision so decided to bring it back. But they left no doubts about their capability of doing that again.

European Parliament rapporteur on Macedonia Erik Meijer has asked the European Commission for confirmation whether generally accepted terms "Macedonians" and "Macedonian" and country code "MK" have been replaced with designation "to be defined", reports Deutsche Welle in Macedonian Language.

[Onur]

Risto I used to believe this myself. But I doubt very much that the Phanariots wanted to "Hellenize" Macedonia considering none (Hellenes: imposter or real) existed in 1776.

In 1776, i don't think thats possible. Phanariots in Istanbul always considered themselves as Romans and their language as Romaika `till about 1860s. When Greece has been founded in 1820s, Phanariots said that it was a revolt of stupid peasants, nothing else.

After 1860s, their beliefs radically changed tough and started to become coherent with modern Greeks.

[Risto the Great]

Risto I used to believe this myself. But I doubt very much that the Phanariots wanted to "Hellenize" Macedonia considering none (Hellenes: imposter or real) existed in 1776.

Given that many Phanariots ended up becoming Romanians, this was never about Hellenising anything. It was about securing markets. The church was the controlling institution and there was a need to gain control of it. The history books clearly show the Ottoman/Patriarchal collusion in this matter.

[TrueMacedonian]

Given that many Phanariots ended up becoming Romanians, this was never about Hellenising anything. It was about securing markets. The church was the controlling institution and there was a need to gain control of it. The history books clearly show the Ottoman/Patriarchal collusion in this matter.

Agreed. However I don't think it was an outright attack on the identity of the Macedonians who felt passionately Christian as there identity by majority.

[Risto the Great]

Agreed. However I don't think it was an outright attack on the identity of the Macedonians who felt passionately Christian as there identity by majority.

Yes, I don't think any Macedonian would have predicted what came next!

[Bratot]

More propaganda from the same set of media:

" Macedonia, Macedonians and Macedonian language exist and will not disappear because of a few words on a piece of paper with a possible contract in the name dispute, " said Daniel Server from the U.S. Institute of Peace in an interview with Voice of America in Macedonian language.

He makes the parallel with the United States to which many refer different, but it does not affect the identity of the country.
He says in the Constitution it is called the United States, but some call it America, some United States, others oppose to call it America - which doesn't mean much to him and recommends that the Macedonians should have more confidence.

"The question is which settings should be made to satisfy the Greeks, whether you think it is fair or not, they have a veto in the Macedonian entry into NATO. So it is a practical matter, and really it's not an ideological, it's about what should I do to get the club where I want to belong, " said Server.

http://a1.com.mk/vesti/default.aspx?VestID=127720

It's becoming more and more perfectly clear in these kind of assurance that all we need to do in order to satisfy the Greeks is to change our name, nationality and language.
It is also clear NATO stands on Greek side and they are using the Macedonian bid to enter this organisation for making their pressure.

Another reason why Macedonia should abid only to her interests that obviously can't be accomplished with her membership in NATO.

After all, Server believes that the option to cease the negotiations and even not to seek membership in the EU and NATO is something that nobody can take away from us.
It is the best option indeed!