Why such a virulent hate towards anything Macedonian?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Soldier of Macedon,

I asked you to demonstrate me where the Greek state claims (and even promotes) the idea of a 97% ethnic pure state.

Instead you show me links that do not represent the opinion of the Greek state where they say things about the Greek state. And what they say has not to do with the 'ethnic purity' but with the religion.

Can you please give me relevant answer to the question? It's important. If you insist I can comment on some of the other things you said, but it's important that we can, once and for all, clarify this matter about Greece claiming etnic purity.

Giorikas, I demostrated to you by way of recorded statistics that Greece considers 97-8% of its population one in the same. Are you implying the the CIA-Factbook have conjured these figures? Greece considers the Orthodox (Greek) religion equal to ethnicity, several 'prominent' figures in your society have claimed that Greece has only one (muslim) minority, and here you are trying to pretend that this is not the case? What else would you say in respect to a state that considers 97-8% of its population to be of one single people, one Greek 'race' (using religion as a critera), but promoting 'ethnic purity'? Are you denying that the Greek state promotes the theory that 97-8% of its population is Greek? Are you now trying to challenge what the Greek state defines as 'Greek'?

the Serbian Orthodox Church is not a breakaway church.

The fictitious and self-proclaimed "Archbishopric of Ohrid" is a propagandist tool created for the sole purpose of working against the Macedonian Church. Tsarknias does nothing against the Greek Church, yet has been treated in a low manner on several ocassions by a group of cowards. Apples and oranges.

[Giorikas]

Giorikas, I demostrated to you by way of recorded statistics that Greece considers 97-8% of its population one in the same. Are you implying the the CIA-Factbook have conjured these figures? Greece considers the Orthodox (Greek) religion equal to ethnicity, several 'prominent' figures in your society have claimed that Greece has only one (muslim) minority, and here you are trying to pretend that this is not the case? What else would you say in respect to a state that considers 97-8% of its population to be of one single people, one Greek 'race' (using religion as a critera), but promoting 'ethnic purity'? Are you denying that the Greek state promotes the theory that 97-8% of its population is Greek? Are you now trying to challenge what the Greek state defines as 'Greek'?

The fictitious and self-proclaimed "Archbishopric of Ohrid" is a propagandist tool created for the sole purpose of working against the Macedonian Church. Tsarknias does nothing against the Greek Church, yet has been treated in a low manner on several ocassions by a group of cowards. Apples and oranges.

Soldier of Macedon,

I repeat, where do you read that the Greek state implies being for 97% ethnic pure? You are just repeating here what you wrote before. And so will I: What CIA factbook says about religious minorities in Greece, does not the Greek state caiming 97% ethnic purity. You said that the Greek state is promoting etnic purity. That is untrue. Do you care to show me where that is promoted? Please involve any of your Greek speakers if you want to widen your search. Greece does in any case not equal etnicity with religion. Now where did you get that from? Wikipedia or something?

[Giorikas]

Giorikas, I demostrated to you by way of recorded statistics that Greece considers 97-8% of its population one in the same. Are you implying the the CIA-Factbook have conjured these figures? Greece considers the Orthodox (Greek) religion equal to ethnicity, several 'prominent' figures in your society have claimed that Greece has only one (muslim) minority, and here you are trying to pretend that this is not the case? What else would you say in respect to a state that considers 97-8% of its population to be of one single people, one Greek 'race' (using religion as a critera), but promoting 'ethnic purity'? Are you denying that the Greek state promotes the theory that 97-8% of its population is Greek? Are you now trying to challenge what the Greek state defines as 'Greek'?

The fictitious and self-proclaimed "Archbishopric of Ohrid" is a propagandist tool created for the sole purpose of working against the Macedonian Church. Tsarknias does nothing against the Greek Church, yet has been treated in a low manner on several ocassions by a group of cowards. Apples and oranges.

The Serbian Orthodox Church does not have to work against the Macedonian Orthodox Church. The first is recognised by others, the second is not. It is not like a competition.

[VMRO]

This is very interesting...

This does not surprise me that this fellow is a loony toon. I can only imagine someone like Vasco, or whatever name he chooses to use or feels he is on any given day (depending on the amount of medicine he is intaking), has been brought up as a very lonely person in this world.

That individual has been trying to prove the so called "Serbian character" of Macedonia for years, now he has done a u-turn and claims it to be Greek, Igor Malinovski was his first alias years back, probably used a surname with SKI at the end to make it seem the big bad Macedonian regime changed his surname.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Soldier of Macedon,

I repeat, where do you read that the Greek state implies being for 97% ethnic pure? You are just repeating here what you wrote before. And so will I: What CIA factbook says about religious minorities in Greece, does not the Greek state caiming 97% ethnic purity. You said that the Greek state is promoting etnic purity. That is untrue. Do you care to show me where that is promoted? Please involve any of your Greek speakers if you want to widen your search. Greece does in any case not equal etnicity with religion. Now where did you get that from? Wikipedia or something?

Giorikas, I have seen the reply you gave to El Bre in relation to the comment by Vlakoyanni, and quite frankly, I find it rather unconvincing. Your FM says the following with regard to the minorities in Greece,

I am sure that you already know that in Greece there is only one minority in Western Thrace and those are the Muslims.

The Muslims constitute 2-3%, leaving 97-8% Greeks. Stop playing games with words and creating fantastic interpretations, her statement clearly implies that in Greece the overwhelming majority are 'Greek', she doesn't have to put the word 'ethnic' infront as it is clear what she is trying to imply, a near 'pure' state where only Greeks are in Greece.

In most countries there is a native people and minorities. Native Macedonians have a common native language, history, culture and identity, as do the Serbs in their respective element, as do the Croats, as do all other host ethnicities in the Balkans. Are you telling me that the 'Greeks' in the Greek Republic that Vlakoyanni is speaking about are not the equivalent of an ethnic Macedonian in the Republic of Macedonia, or of an ethnic Serb in the Republic of Serbia, or of an ethnic Croat in the Republic of Croatia? Are you telling me that I should use religion as a criteria and compare all Christians in these countries to the 'Greek' population in Greece? Where and who are the ethnic Greeks among these 'Greeks' in Greece?

The Serbian Orthodox Church does not have to work against the Macedonian Orthodox Church. The first is recognised by others, the second is not. It is not like a competition.

Who said it was a competition? I know I didn't. The SOC actively works against the MOC due to its pathetic jealousy and typical greed, which, I might add, is also replicated by your church also. Are you denying that the SOC and the GOC actively work against the MOC and its efforts to achieve recognition? Why, as 'good' neighbours, has your church not recognized mine, in the spirit of your own optimism?

Do you find it that hard to accept the reality of your discriminative church and state, particularly where it concerns its treatment of the Macedonians?

[Giorikas]

Giorikas, I have seen the reply you gave to El Bre in relation to the comment by Vlakoyanni, and quite frankly, I find it rather unconvincing. Your FM says the following with regard to the minorities in Greece,

The Muslims constitute 2-3%, leaving 97-8% Greeks. Stop playing games with words and creating fantastic interpretations, her statement clearly implies that in Greece the overwhelming majority are 'Greek', she doesn't have to put the word 'ethnic' infront as it is clear what she is trying to imply, a near 'pure' state where only Greeks are in Greece.

In most countries there is a native people and minorities. Native Macedonians have a common native language, history, culture and identity, as do the Serbs in their respective element, as do the Croats, as do all other host ethnicities in the Balkans. Are you telling me that the 'Greeks' in the Greek Republic that Vlakoyanni is speaking about are not the equivalent of an ethnic Macedonian in the Republic of Macedonia, or of an ethnic Serb in the Republic of Serbia, or of an ethnic Croat in the Republic of Croatia? Are you telling me that I should use religion as a criteria and compare all Christians in these countries to the 'Greek' population in Greece? Where and who are the ethnic Greeks among these 'Greeks' in Greece?

Who said it was a competition? I know I didn't. The SOC actively works against the MOC due to its pathetic jealousy and typical greed, which, I might add, is also replicated by your church also. Are you denying that the SOC and the GOC actively work against the MOC and its efforts to achieve recognition? Why, as 'good' neighbours, has your church not recognized mine, in the spirit of your own optimism?

Do you find it that hard to accept the reality of your discriminative church and state, particularly where it concerns its treatment of the Macedonians?

Soldier of Macedon,

Sorry for misspelling. I meant comparison. The one is recognised, the other not.

Again, do not try interpreting or misinterpreting words. She says that there are no other minorities then the Muslim minorities. You may find that incorrect and wrong, but that is how it is. That is not the same as claiming 97% etnic purity.

Maybe you and El Bre, not living in Europe and not being Europeans, do not understand the sensitivities surrounding that. In Europe, we're not that far from the Holocaust, and believe me, any country that would start talking about the percentage of ethnic pure citizins compared to the unpure would immediately be labelled as racist. Try discussing these matters in Germany about the 'ethnic purity' of Germans (Germans being responsible for the Holocaust), and you would find yourself in court in no-time. So a Jewish German is a German. Period. They will not consider differently even if they feel more close to the state of Israel then German. That is irrelevant anyway, they do not have to take position. This applies to all EU countries.

Going back to Greece: Greece does not imply being etnically pure, does not believe being ethnically pure, does not promote being ethnically pure, and is not ethnically pure. Neither is the ROM or any country for that matter. I would be very surprised if those of you claiming ethic purity, would really be that ..Bakoyannis does NOT say in the quote that 2-3% is Muslim, therefore the rest is ethnic pure Greek. She talks in that respect about religion.

Now who adheres to which church in Greece is a different matter. And this is (as you pointed out to me many times) of course not related to ethnicity. You can be Greek and be Roman Catholic (as happens on a more then avarage basis in the Cyclades). You can be Greek of Spanish and Catholic descent (as a cousin in law of mine is) many generations ago, but be Greek and identify as Greek and converted to the Greek Orthodox Church for whatever reason.

I am not playing games. Please investigate as much as you want how 'ethnic' or not Greeks are. If it makes you happy. I hope many will hear about your mission, and I assure you, you will be branded as a racist immediately to the neutral reader. You have not managed to convince me how the Greek states promotes an ethnically pure state and I assume you are not able to. I also note that you have no plausible explanation why the oppressed Macedonian non-Greek minority in Greece is not massively sending a strong and clear message by voting for the Rainbow party. How many oppressed in this world would not pray to someday have this right to express themselves democratically and let themselves be heard and represented in parliament? Would that not be a first step to recognition?
In fact you have never replied me about the estimations of that population in Greece, but somehow you insist on Greece acknowledging this minority.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Again, do not try interpreting or misinterpreting words. She says that there are no other minorities then the Muslim minorities. You may find that incorrect and wrong, but that is how it is. That is not the same as claiming 97% etnic purity

I am not going to go in circles, Vlakoyanni made the statement and the statistics speak for themselves. You are quickly becoming a sour apologist for these idiotic actions of your state and politicians.

You have not managed to convince me how the Greek states promotes an ethnically pure state and I assume you are not able to.

I have done this repeatedly over the last several posts, you just don't seem to be getting it, but my tolerance has endured for I understand that you are indoctrinated into the 'Hellenic' idea and find it hard to grasp reality when the false reality of your state is challenged. I know, you are flag-carrying for your side and can't let the 'team' down, regardless of the pitiful lies and lows your arguments descend to.

I also note that you have no plausible explanation why the oppressed Macedonian non-Greek minority in Greece is not massively sending a strong and clear message by voting for the Rainbow party.

Again, I have already explained my view on this, you may want to go back a page or two. How many real (Pagan) Hellenes are there in Greece? How many voted for the real Hellene party, 2000? What are the rest, Greeks? So that means of all the 98% 'Greeks' only 2000 are ethnic and real Hellenes? Your own logic works against you.

[TerraNova]

Again, I have already explained my view on this, you may want to go back a page or two. How many real (Pagan) Hellenes are there in Greece? How many voted for the real Hellene party, 2000? What are the rest, Greeks? So that means of all the 98% 'Greeks' only 2000 are ethnic and real Hellenes? Your own logic works against you.

[Giorikas]

I am not going to go in circles, Vlakoyanni made the statement and the statistics speak for themselves. You are quickly becoming a sour apologist for these idiotic actions of your state and politicians.

I have done this repeatedly over the last several posts, you just don't seem to be getting it, but my tolerance has endured for I understand that you are indoctrinated into the 'Hellenic' idea and find it hard to grasp reality when the false reality of your state is challenged. I know, you are flag-carrying for your side and can't let the 'team' down, regardless of the pitiful lies and lows your arguments descend to.

Again, I have already explained my view on this, you may want to go back a page or two. How many real (Pagan) Hellenes are there in Greece? How many voted for the real Hellene party, 2000? What are the rest, Greeks? So that means of all the 98% 'Greeks' only 2000 are ethnic and real Hellenes? Your own logic works against you.

So if Bakoyannis says that 97% adheres to the Greek Orthodox Church she means something else you say. Why not provide me evidence which is more outspoken and clear, since the Greek state promotes the etnic pure state? You should have many more examples of this promotion, by many more people. On the other hand, if your politicians do the opposite (making clear statements) saying that you are not related to ancient macedonians but to Bulgarians then you ignore it ..

You're being petty now. We seem to be on opposite ends here, but I would not accuse you of being indoctrinated. I disagree with your view, that's all. We're talking on different wavelengths and on top you seem to have difficulties to back up your words.

What you said 2 pages ago was not very convincing or coherent. Neither what you say above. If I would be an oppressed Macedonian in Greece and my life was made a hell, I am being haressed, and I want to vindicate the bad treatment of Greeks to my people today and in the past, then I would go against that. With as little risk as possible, but if needed, even I would take that risk.

Now you have this wonderful democratic tool: a political party for which you can vote at each election. Easy, no names, just a vote in a ballot box and you leave. Now why for the love of God would this considerable Macedonian minority not use this powerful democratic tool available to them use this, redardless whether you agree with each person in that party, or with each agenda point, you will have to go through this party. Would you in their place even contemplate not voting for rainbow when living in 'Mordor'

Is it because they don't care (and are possibly not as oppressed as you imagine) or is it because this is the maximum of votes that Macedonians managed to squeeze out of this huge community that screems for recognition (more so by the Australians and Canadians overseas though). I repeat: What is the size of the Macedonian community in Greece ? You're the second now after Risto the Great that can not answer that question.

[Dimko-piperkata]

@TN, Giorikas
what in hell are u guys doing here on a macedonian forum ?
go and brainwash your kids !

[Risto the Great]

Fucking greek apologists making new interpretations on Bakoyanni's standard spiels. I will take the time to highlight that miserable whore's comments more precisely in the future.

[Giorikas]

Fucking greek apologists making new interpretations on Bakoyanni's standard spiels. I will take the time to highlight that miserable whore's comments more precisely in the future.

Watch the language or I'll ban you too, Risto the Great. Why don't you give it a go instead. Try to prove the myth that the Greek states feel themselves an ethnic pure state. For 97%. Promotes it even I hear ... Show me some more of this overwhelmingly convincing proof that you've suggested for years behind your PC in Australia. Put your money where you mouth is. If you can't, that would make you either a fool, a fraud, or an apologist, wouldn't it? You choose .. Ah, no wait a second, this is another of those thingies that will have to be sorted in the future, just as the million other theories you've been waiting for to be proven ... We're patient ..

[slovenec zrinski]

Giorikas in Germany there are three ETHNIC minorities that are officially recognised and whose languages are protected and taught in school...sorbs,frisians and danes. So in Germany they apparently recognises the fact that they have ethnic minorities and where there is an ethnic minority there has to be an ethnic majority...

[Giorikas]

Giorikas in Germany there are three ETHNIC minorities that are officially recognised and whose languages are protected and taught in school...sorbs,frisians and danes. So in Germany they apparently recognises the fact that they have ethnic minorities and where there is an ethnic minority there has to be an ethnic majority...

Hello Slovenec zrinski,

Thanks for that. That's new for me. Do you have some article or so where I can read up on that?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Hello Slovenec zrinski,

Thanks for that. That's new for me. Do you have some article or so where I can read up on that?

What, are you blind as well being insolent? Did you not read the sources I cited in response to your earlier dribble while you were in the process of creating your own adaptions of the garbage emanating from that cow of an FM you have?

In how many different shapes does this fact need to be presented to you for your thick skull to finally comprehend that your FM clearly tries to indicate that 97-8% of the population of Greece is actually one in the same? What do you interpret as 'the only minority in Greece is the Muslims'? Does that not mean that the rest of the people are all 'Greeks'?

Answer some questions and stop chasing your own tail. Where and who exactly are the "ethnic" Greeks amongst the 97-8% of your population that is claimed as 'Greek'?

Or is Greece simply a religious designation? Is this what you are implying? Meaning that the majority populations in Russia and Serbia are 'Greeks'? WOW!!! What a revelation! What kind of a sick and deluded country counts 97-8% of its population to be one in the same? Only one deluded country - Modern Greece.

I am all for dialogue, but your rantings are becoming tiresome, and if you proceed to drag this issue along in circles by denying the obvious facts which you need explained to you numerous times, your time will be limited here, and you can take my word for it.

Your politicians and your people claim that 97-8% of Greece is Greek. Clearly, these people are morons, and have no idea about their own history.