Washington Behind Terrorist Attacks in Macedonia

[Risto the Great]

I believe in Macedonia taking a strong stance on national issues the same as you do.

You don't.
You need to think about that.

[Vangelovski]

Let's face it Macedonia is small and powerless. Little guys need big friends. The biggest friend you can have is america.

I think you're a little guy - at least where it counts (in the mind). I don't think anyone is necessarily promoting "anti-Americanism", but rather promoting the idea that Macedonians should be exercising their natural rights.

[Vangelovski]

I'm the same as you guys and want what's best for Macedonia. I just happen to disagree with what you guys are saying. Its a free world and I can have a different opinion.

Let me re-state my position. It is in Macedonia's interest to be as close to America as possible. In fact I believe that Macedonia's goal should be to have stronger relations with America than any of Macedonia's neighbours. Macedonia must do this to obtain American support on issues concerning Macedonia.

Take the examples of Israel. Israel is one of america's closest allies. Israel receives significant aid and support from america. However because of its alliance with America it is also able to pursue its national interests quite strongly. Israel drives its national strategy. This is what I think Macedonia should emulate. Support America as strongly as possible while at the same time holding a strong national position.

Macedonia needs to 'play the game' of geopolitics and not get played. I believe in Macedonia taking a strong stance on national issues the same as you do. That's my opinion. I know most of you would disagree and that's fine.

You have a very poor understanding of "geopolitics". Perhaps you did a semester of it in your undergrad? Meto's also at that level.

[julie]

America helped Macedonia by arming Albanian terrorists and threatening the MAcedonian army against protecting its MAcedonian people . Another umd tool hits the forum

[danny]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the juvenile insults.

Since I'm so stupid please explain to me how Macedonia should work with America to achieve the best outcomes?

I'm happy to be shown to be wrong but you haven't posted anything that would cause me to change my opinion. I am interested in exploring what you all think Macedonia's relationship with the USA should be like.

Name a country with similar circumstances that we could copy?

[Vangelovski]

Why do we have to "copy" another country danny? Why would you assume that Macedonia needs to have a different type of relationship with the United States? What exactly would that type of relationship entail?

What ever happened to an actual partnership where we trade with each other and assist each other, but not at the expense of our own national interests?

What "geopolitical game" is Macedonia supposedly playing?

[makedonche]

makedonche,
If we lived in a perfect world then we would ask for reparations. Unfortunately the world isn't perfect.

If anything I would suggest that we forgive but not forget.

danny
Your'e right it's not a perfect world we live in and never will be - such is the nature of human beings. However there are some of us that are a lot closer to perfect than others are, therefore to align yourself with those that are further from perfection than you are would send you backwards. To stand up for your rights without relying on someone holding your hand is a far greater and more noble disposition, particularly when the one you choose to hold your hand is responsible in contributing to your rights having been eroded!

[Risto the Great]

I believe in Macedonia taking a strong stance on national issues the same as you do.

OK, lets go with baby steps Dan.
How would your position above manifest itself given the current Macedonian geopolitical climate?

[Phoenix]

I think you're a little guy - at least where it counts (in the mind). I don't think anyone is necessarily promoting "anti-Americanism", but rather promoting the idea that Macedonians should be exercising their natural rights.

I'd prefer to see the danny's of the world, very well hung...slowly swinging in the breeze with the rhythm of the finest metronome...American arse kisser.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Support America as strongly as possible while at the same time holding a strong national position.

Interesting concept. America supports the Framework Agreement which was imposed on Macedonia after the 2001 conflict. Tell me, how are we supposed to support America in this instance and at the same time hold a strong national position? Is that not an oxymoron? Or do you also support the Framework Agreement?

Macedonia needs to 'play the game' of geopolitics and not get played.

They aren't playing it very well, because the way they have played the 'game' resulted in changes to the name, flag, constitution, etc.

Since I'm so stupid please explain to me how Macedonia should work with America to achieve the best outcomes?

Grow thick skin, it's an internet forum and some people may be more liberal with their terminology, but I find that just like in the real world respect needs to be earned through interaction. As for how Macedonia should work with America, I already stated that common actions need to be measured so that nothing impedes on the integrity of Macedonia(ns).

In your opinion, was American recognition of Macedonia's official name in 2004 more important than maintaining the integrity of the territorial units in Macedonia, as they were at the time? Or would you rather the current status quo?

[George S.]

We have to be smart about it.We know that america supports us in some ways & it doesn't support us in others so being smart about it would help us.Going agains't america is not a wise move as danny advocates strong nationalism again'st those that oppose us.We need to look at things in a constructive basis & not destructive basis.Allready they recognize us by our name we need to build on that in more positive ways.Take a look how those that are agains't us operate in the us with strong lobying & use of the greek diaspora.The mighty vote is a powerfull thing.Don't forget the worst possible thing we can do is to oppose america.We need to harness the goodness out of america & use it for our own purposes.Canada is one example of the way we have been accepted.There are many other countries that accept us we nee to form strong ties & build frindship & support channels through trade etc.Once our enemies see how widely we are accepted then that is a big start.We have got allies everywhere we can build closer ties allready eg turkey we are doing it.thats a good example.We should bringit on & more of it.Once our enemies see we are strong & have lot's of friends i'm sure they'll give up the fight.

[julie]

George, you have stumped me .
America armed the Albanian terrorists, America forced Macedonia to open her border to fleeing refugees, with promises of assistance when we stated we could not support such a huge influx, America did not allow the Macedonians to protect herself against the armed terrorists, who America armed. America was a real friend to Macedonia, best buddy with the framework agreement
Am not sure if you have suffered a momentary lapse of unconsciousness when you say they are our friends
America armed Greece with napalm to use on Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia in the civil war, Macedonians were good guinea pigs.
We can trust America to be our friend?????

[makedonche]

George S

We need to harness the goodness out of america & use it for our own purposes

I too was surprised with your commentary, my view is
"you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"
I trust you are familiar with the saying?

[George S.]

Are we going to win by going agains't america.We have to turn things around where they are with us & not against us.You know why all that is happening because the greeks have rich business men in america with connections & greek minded vote politicicians.Also albanians have their own congressman & also they have lobbied on the pretext they are fighting for freedom & other rifghts which is bs.Also some one mentioned an important point that the us want's a base in europe.You know how america recognised us under the term ROM well if we could build on that with them on that instead of turning into hate we can be recognized at least.
I agree it seems two facedon one hand it supports macedonia but trained the kla or the uck & also it was meddling in the internal affairs telling ROM not to fire agains't the terrorists.When in fact america should show support to macedonia & not be two faced about it.It is asy to say but to put into practice it's hard.Are you aware ?i'm pretty sure you know when the us recognized Macedonia under it's rightfull name the greeks were furious & attempted to reverse that.Also they tried to do that in canada But it didn't work. You know that our enemies are striding to destroy us & try & make us irrelvant & insignificant but we have to turn that around.So in the event can we afford to lose whatever frienship we have,i don't mean to sell yourself short in the process.But somehow there has to be a light at the end of the tunnel.

[makedonche]

Are we going to win by going agains't america.We have to turn things around where they are with us & not against us.You know why all that is happening because the greeks have rich business men in america with connections & greek minded politicicians.Also albanians have their own congressman & also they have lobbied on the pretext they are fighting for freedom & other rifghts.Also some one mentioned an important point that the us want's a base in europe.You know how america recognised us under the term ROM well if we could build on that with them on that instead of turning into hate we cab be recognized at least.
I agree it seems two facedon one hand it supports macedonia but trained the kla or the uck & also it was meddling in the internal affairs telling ROM not to fire agains't the terrorists.When in fact america should show support to macedonia & not be two faced about it.It is asy to say but to put into practice it's hard.Are you aware ?i'm pretty sure you know when the us recognized Macedonia under it's rightfull name the greeks were furious & attempted to reverse that.Also they tried to do that in canada But it didn't work.So oin the event can we afford to lose whatever frienship we have,i don't mean to sell yourself short in the process.But somehow there has to be a light at the end of the tunnel.

George S
Yes I agree, but there has to be accountability and at the very least acknowledgement and public proclamations of their mistakes against Macedonia during the conflict, otherwise we have a very unbalanced situation which they would not think twice about repeating - unless of course they go on public record to announce they f*cked up and are prepared to make ammends. Their approach is that we are a superpower and don't admit anything, but will gladly take credit for all good things- like resolving the 2001 conflict through their diplomatic channels - let's not have them do that again, by my calculations that resolving of the 2001 conflict didn't go to well for us!