Tito's birthday celebrated in Stari Kraj

[Big Bad Sven]

One thing that ALWAYS pops when people talk about the good old days of Yugoslavia is that they always bring up the 70's and 80's. Strange no one brings up the 50's or 60's?????

Perhaps it has something to do with Tito ruling yugoslavia like Stalin and following his model in the 50's and early 60's? Perhaps it may have something to do with prominant macedonians like Chetno being thown in the slammer for expressing pro macedonian feelings???

My old man left yugoslavia in the late 60's, mainly because macedonia was poor and their was no future or freedom there. Every one was bleak and sad. Im assuming thats why a lot of macedonians migrated to australia in the begining of the 70's.
However in the mid to late 70;s the place changed, people where very proud to be in yugoslavia and macedonia's economy and structure improved greatly.

Maybe we need to view and judge Tito's time ruling macedonia in two periods: the brutal 1950's-1960 and then the more "pleasent" 1970-1980.
I find it strange that the best times of Yugoslavia for the macedonians were in Tito's last 10 years of his life, when he was a dying elderly man......

[Big Bad Sven]

Now days every Albanian has the right to say how they will destroy Macedonia. So i am wondering whay was it so bad when you compare it to now days.
Mind you under the Yugoslav regime we were able to obtain a visa to travel freely to Oz and live here. Now i cant go on holiday to maco for few days without being hassled. This is the freedom we wanted??

heh, another yugo-commie wet dream The old "tito was against the shiptars" theory

My collection of history books are in my other home, but i remember a while back reading a book about yugoslavia that stated something along the lines that after WW2 the shiptars in macedonia and kosovo were still fighting with the macedonian and serbs. Tito basically allowed these people,to stay in yugoslavia and made them citezens. Funny that, after WW2 the great Tito expelled all of the Italians and germans from his precious little Slovenia and Croatia homeland but strangely allowed the nazi shiptars to stay in macedonia, and even allowed for more to come in!

The talk back then was that Tito, in his eternal wisdom in trying to be friendly to Albania and wooing it to join with Yugoslavia, allowed a lot of shiptars to cross the border into macedonia and kosovo and make them citezens of Yugoslavia. This is apprently the main reason as to why there is a huge jump in albanian population figures in the 60's for macedonia.

And finally notice how the shiptars in kosovo are more nationalistic and more fanatically islamic then their kin in albania? Its because in Tito's Yugoslavia they were treated as equal citezens and given so much freedom for them to maintain their islamic fundalmentalism and albanian nationalism. I mean if you watch footage of Tito visiting kosovo they are all waving the albanian flag!
Remember Kosovo was not a republic, Tito allowed it to be taken away from the serbs and allowed it to be controlled by shiptar communists.

[fyrOM]

Goebbels says use everything at your disposal.
Go-ebbel-ski says

Right said Big Bad Sven. The early days of glorious Tito were the days of the collectives and confiscation of private property. Even in the war years my great grand father had enough to feed his family then confiscations and 3 years of party and pusti when the sleduvajne was not enough for your family and he and others had to secretly travel all night to villages not in the collectives just to buy a sack of flower to see the month through. Then at the bust up of the collectives from the flock of sheep and herd of cattle ect they got back one cow and one sheep. Some of the land was returned while much of it stayed confiscated until relatively recently when under Macedonia it was returned to my uncle. The glories of Tito in the early days - rob you of your land and positions at gun point then starve you for a few years then a few more years before you can get back on your feet and before you know it we are upto the glorious late 50s and 60s. It was all planned people. Like the olds say I don’t need a history book to tell me what I saw but a gun will keep your mouth shut. By the late 50s and 60s the new generations are coming up with all the benefits of a state education an pioneri ect and the we are nation building while we sing songs about glorious leader Tito. We have to work hard. We are so poor because those nast Nazis blew everything up never mind your memories if any as a child going hungry. By the 70s the newer generations knew little if anything of the past and don’t really care to know to much in part from fear glorious leader might be watching and mostly from the human need for belonging and the fact that life was taking off both as the country and their personal lives. They were old enough for jobs going out dating marrying building house or buying an apartment. Who wants to think of the past. Who wants to think of the loans Yugoslavia is swinging to keep the economy afloat which the decay would start to rust from 1980 when he died only to keep rusting under the surface until the late 80s when the whole structure started creaking and the phone call to bum chum Greeky to rename everything to Macedonia because those in the know didn’t like what they saw under the covers until it all blew up in the early 90s. Glorious leader the smoke and mirrors only had to last so long. It must have been wonderful on the covers for all of you singing glorious leaders praises. Remember there is the truth and then there is the truth. At the MTO we seek the truth - or was it the truth. It kind of gets muddled sometimes which is which. Ah well we can always sing Zivej Tito while we contemplate on it. Either way whatever we say those fools in the diaspora wouldn’t have a clue. Where do you think the diaspora came from - a kangaroos pouch.

[malenka]

I think people here forget the main thing. Not everyone reads about the politics, about the statistics, looking deeper in what things were and that they now face consequences for their indulgence, good life or bad life. But people reflect on the days when things seemed good or bad and they long nostalgicaly for them or are glad those days are gone.

Here, we all had mortgage of 5 times our salaries, zero deposits, 10 credit cards and man, life was good! Then came financial crises and people's homes got reposessed, declaring bankrupt because we can't pay our depts so we have to sell our gucci shoes on ebay to get something back to be able to pay back what wasn't ours in the first place. But before the recession our lives were great, and we want that lifestyle back.
So in the time of Tito, and just after that the people's spirit was mainly high. Never mind why. Spirits were high. On Rabotna Akcija everyone went out, worked and didn't complain, because everyone enjoyed themselves. Now, you get two or three Den Na Drvoto a year, and few people that care for the nature come and do the work, national holiday, no work, and majoroty of people sit at home kako trupci. The same spirit is not there.

Few years or decades down the line we will find out what our current rulers actually have done for our good, and judge them then, good or bad. Everyone judges really the times now, the government now, even tho sometimes problems they face are inherited and take time to fix so you put god there if you want, even he needs to start sweeping before putting new furniture in.

The circle of life. But I much like hakuna matata

[Grotius]

There is no question about it, life in Yugoslavia was great - if you were a Yugoslav that is. If you were a Yugoslav, you got to have an 'education', you ended up with a job and could go on holidays. You even got to have electricity in your village.

I wonder how much that hugely appreciated education system (and for that matter political system) engaged in a discourse on the Macedonians who lived just over the border? I know a lot of (former) happy little Yugoslavs - educated in that much loved education system who didn't even know that Macedonians inhabited the Aegean part of Macedonia - they would say "tie site se Grci". Great place!?.

In any event, it is simply absurd to even try and draw parallels between a previous 'Yugoslav' era and today, the landscape is completely different. The happy little Yugoslav people didn't have any pesky little existential issues to deal with due to racist neighbours. But nowadays, heaven forbid we should manifest our identity. Indeed, fo doing so we get to have embargos placed on us, boycotts, etc...

Perhaps some perspective is necessary. As to all the complaints about today's economic conditions in the RoM, surely (aside from the above)some of these issues are borne out of acculturation tied to the 'great' preceding era?

[Warrior]

heh, another yugo-commie wet dream The old "tito was against the shiptars" theory

My collection of history books are in my other home, but i remember a while back reading a book about yugoslavia that stated something along the lines that after WW2 the shiptars in macedonia and kosovo were still fighting with the macedonian and serbs. Tito basically allowed these people,to stay in yugoslavia and made them citezens. Funny that, after WW2 the great Tito expelled all of the Italians and germans from his precious little Slovenia and Croatia homeland but strangely allowed the nazi shiptars to stay in macedonia, and even allowed for more to come in!

The talk back then was that Tito, in his eternal wisdom in trying to be friendly to Albania and wooing it to join with Yugoslavia, allowed a lot of shiptars to cross the border into macedonia and kosovo and make them citezens of Yugoslavia. This is apprently the main reason as to why there is a huge jump in albanian population figures in the 60's for macedonia.

And finally notice how the shiptars in kosovo are more nationalistic and more fanatically islamic then their kin in albania? Its because in Tito's Yugoslavia they were treated as equal citezens and given so much freedom for them to maintain their islamic fundalmentalism and albanian nationalism. I mean if you watch footage of Tito visiting kosovo they are all waving the albanian flag!
Remember Kosovo was not a republic, Tito allowed it to be taken away from the serbs and allowed it to be controlled by shiptar communists.

You can shove that in your back side calling me a Yugo or any other shit. I am proud to be Maco and will always be!!

I want to see the courage in you to say it in my face.

From WW2 onwards lets say Tito screwed Maco's as i said there are all of sorts of stories about evil. Depends which book your read. Fortunately i havent been privy to any of that stuff. So i cant talk too much about it and i have no doubt lot of Macedonian were hard done or executed, but its one party policy and that is they way it goes. Imagine those laws were in place and you can line up Georgiveski, Ahmeti, Boskovski, Branko etc. Ids say the country would be much stronger immediately.

From independence onwards we have EU, NATO, Albanians, Bulagarians, Greeks etc. telling us what to do. They have taken our flag away and also our name and most of our dignity! We cant fart in Maco until we get approval from the international body. Is this what free Macedonia is???? Do you really think Macedonia is independent? It has only changed hands from one master to another. Thats it. The new masters are more diplomatic about how they are going to destroy us, which you fail to see.

I am amazed about the Shiptari theory, obviously you never lived there. They were dirt poor then and begged Maco's for a job. Do you think an Albanian flag was anywhere waved in the Maco territory? Did you think they have had the opprtunity to say we are not Maco's, like they tell us now. If so prove it. I went many times for summer holidays to Skopje via Tetovo and you can see the population there of Shipci, but no Albanian flags.

It wasnt Tito that sent 300K of that garbage to us either from Kosovo during the war there!! It was our free democracy buddies.

Tito did not recognise nor did he give independence to Kosovo, the US did. Id like to see those photos that you claim of Albo flags whilst his visit was there. He hated the Albanian side and the borders were always shut with them.

The past is gone and that society cant flourish in todays environment even though people of the older generation say positive things, that will not take Macedonia forward now, but what is unfortunate the current environment that has been in place for 20 years, has take the country backwards to the edge of non-existence., I was there few weeks ago and people have positive things to say about the past and see no future now with current political system. So why is that???, But obviously its lot worse now and i dont think anyone envisage in the 90's that independence will be as "rosy" as now.

[Prolet]

Great rundown Warrior

There were no Albanian flags infact i didnt even know what an Albanian Flag looked like before independence, they couldnt say a word the Albanians during that Era and now they act like they own our country and this is why the people are so pissed off. The worst thing that happened to us is to have people who were beneath us running our country yet not even capable to look after themselves.

Grotius, Its not so much about having to be a Yugoslav its more of the fact that you had to follow their way of life, if you had a communist kniska and you did what you were told, you would get rewarded for it but i cant think of anybody openly saying to me about being Yugoslav as an identity, we'd only pretty much say we come from Yugoslavia if asked which country we originate from it was never about the nationality i guess in Australia it was viewed differently back then.

Malenka, Have you ever heard the Evrejska Kletva?? Da imas pa da nemas

[sf.]

Јас знам песна за Ајдучка Чешма, ама не целата, па ногу се 50+ строфи! Не знам од кого е.

This gave me nightmares. I think it has 32 or 36 verses.

[Warrior]

There is no question about it, life in Yugoslavia was great - if you were a Yugoslav that is. If you were a Yugoslav, you got to have an 'education', you ended up with a job and could go on holidays. You even got to have electricity in your village.

I wonder how much that hugely appreciated education system (and for that matter political system) engaged in a discourse on the Macedonians who lived just over the border? I know a lot of (former) happy little Yugoslavs - educated in that much loved education system who didn't even know that Macedonians inhabited the Aegean part of Macedonia - they would say "tie site se Grci". Great place!?.

In any event, it is simply absurd to even try and draw parallels between a previous 'Yugoslav' era and today, the landscape is completely different. The happy little Yugoslav people didn't have any pesky little existential issues to deal with due to racist neighbours. But nowadays, heaven forbid we should manifest our identity. Indeed, fo doing so we get to have embargos placed on us, boycotts, etc...

Perhaps some perspective is necessary. As to all the complaints about today's economic conditions in the RoM, surely (aside from the above)some of these issues are borne out of acculturation tied to the 'great' preceding era?

Definetely i was thought in grade four about the division in 1913 and also the Egejski and Pirinski del. I didnt learn much, but certainly was made aware. Obviously when i arrived in Oz learn a lot more and the true suffering of the people there. Certainly the Egejci can do lot more for themselves than excepting back handers from the Greek government and living cushy lives. The biggest Grkomani, had lot more privileges in Greece than any Srboman in Maco....Actually the majority of the maco's in Egej become Grkomani and that is where the biggest objection is coming from for the existence of RoM.

Also countries such as Poland, Chech Republic, Hungary etc, were part of that 'era', they seem to have moved on fairly well in todays environment. I wonder why they were effected by the past. Because they have capable leaders to lead their nations and we have ovci, that know how to get the people offside and sell the country. Its not the past era that's holding us back....To deflect current leaders deficiencies they use the past as an excuse due to the evilness then.....

[Risto the Great]

I knew an Italian guy called Tito.
Where the hell did JoJo get his name from?

[Prolet]

Маленка, Ајдучка Чешма е од Ѓорѓи Абаџиев

[fyrOM]

RTG if by JoJo you mean Tito sto ubavo si go vikas nagaleno then you are showing what real macos not us call your diaspora ne znajte. Tito is his nickname derived from his position of powerful leader he could and did say Ti you(do) To abbreviated common form That ie you do that.

The Italian guy probably got it from Titos then popularity ie 40s 50s 60s 70s both from the communist party in Italy and admiration by many for being the founding member of the organization of nonaligned countries. His smoke and mirror act made him popular not only in Yugoslavia but also abroad. When my dad was coming over to Australia his ship stopped in Ethiopia where all the locals referred to all Yugoslavs as Tito.

[Prolet]

OziMak, Tito is his nickname, his name is Josip Broz, just like Stalin is a nickname not his proper name.

[Daniel the Great]

They are crazy, they celebrate his birthday as if he was a Macedonian hero or patriot.

[fyrOM]

Prolet it is exactly what I said ie its his nickname

The song that was sung at every train station in Titos Yugoslavia
Proketa Da E Avstralija

http://www.besplatnivideo.com/nikola-badev/prokleta-da-e-avstralija-video_3ff0c6dad.html