Why the lack of protests in Macedonia?

[Risto the Great]

Well, Thailand was great fun, the people & food were lovely and I (along with my sons) got to train a bit of Muay Thai with an excellent master. I did mention earlier that I was very close to the red shirt protests. In fact, I was pretty much in amongst it. It was only a couple of days later when 20 odd people were killed. I found the passion intoxicating. It led me to wonder what kind of slavery has slammed the Macedonians into such a miserable accepting kind of mentality that has ensured it has been justly rewarded with mediocrity and mockery by other countries.

What do you think it would really take for Macedonians to rise in protest?

[Volk]

What do you think it would really take for Macedonians to rise in protest?

Protest about what? People are protesting all the time... just not about issues your implying...

Negotiating our name? Situation of Macedonians in neighboring countries?

In the early nineties Macedonians where yelling and screaming about Macedonian human rights and the unification of our nation at plostad Makedonija. Perhaps looking at the factors which crushed that spirit need to be highlighted so we can overcome them.

[Risto the Great]

Protesting about anything would be good at this point.

Perhaps looking at the factors which crushed that spirit need to be highlighted so we can overcome them.

Are you suggesting something over the last 20 years has crushed that spirit?

[Jankovska]

i have been asking myself the same thing for a very long time now. In my opinion and this is just my opinion (so don't shoot me) I think it's few factors that I see to be the reason

1) Centuries of slavery where people have lost confidence and don't realise how good they are and they can be. We have been raised and so have our parents and great parents in a mentality that says everyone is better than us: the Serbs, the Bulgarians, the English, the Germans etc. This is something that has really pulled us back. People in Macedonia should wake up and realise they are sooo lucky to be Macedonians, they are special and no one is better than them. They look at everyone else and think they are better than them. They try to be someone else. I was raised that way to think, wow ona e srbinka ili toj e anglicanec wow, but when I moved I realised I am so cool coz I am Macedonian. If you don't believe in yourself you've lost it all

2) Education. Education is something that is missing alot in Macedonia or has been missing for decades. In Jugoslavian time we praised Jugoslavia, it's how it was. People left school vo osmo oddelenie to work in factories because that was possible. Now days a lot of the kids go through school and after matura still can't read. Why? Because of corrupted education system, usless commie teachers. My history teacher called us Sloveni all the time, no wonder everyone comes out of school thinking yes we are Sloveni. We study the Slav migration as our history. You can't fight for something if you don't firmly believe in it. People don't firmly believe in it because in a way they haven't been educated properly. It's the sad truth. I say and it sounds mean but many uneducated people have the right to vote these days, that is why Macedonia is where it is.

3)Government- we have never had anyone who can make you feel proud. I thought for a moment Grujo is the person and he isn't. We need someone who will take drastic matters to look after the people, to show them that all is not lost and they have themselves and the country to fight for. We need a strong patriotic leader.

4) Diaspora- In the past the Diaspora played a massive part into making the Macedonians to believe that it's all roses in the west. No one came and said Macedonia is great. Everyone came and said: A be da vidis sto ti e Germanija? Are you kidding me? This has stuck with the normal Macedonians.

5) Poverty- best way to control people. The more you take away from them the more hope they loose. People in Macedonia don't believe anymore. We want them to but they don't. Years of bad leadership has left them to think about providing bread not if they will go on protests or not. The ones that are in jobs will be scared to protests in case they are seen and loose their job

6) Corruption has made people think ima leb samo za bogatite i ako si bogat you can get away with anything. It's still very true.

7) Spies and traitors- no need to explain

What to do to change it? Change the above and have strong leadership.

[Prolet]

There were protests today actually in Shutka, there were people injured.

[julie]

Prolet, how did injuries happen in a peaceful potest?

[Prolet]

Julie, It wasnt peaceful at all the Gjupci threw punches and attacked the police. They were Pazardzii who were selling fake clothing and the Pazarna Inspekcija ordered for the material to be seized into trucks so the Pazardzii attacked them. Elvis Bajram who is the Mayor of Suto Orizari and the son of Amdi Bajram accused the police and pazardzii.

[Jankovska]

Julie, It wasnt peaceful at all the Gjupci threw punches and attacked the police. They were Pazardzii who were selling fake clothing and the Pazarna Inspekcija ordered for the material to be seized into trucks so the Pazardzii attacked them. Elvis Bajram who is the Mayor of Suto Orizari and the son of Amdi Bajram accused the police and pazardzii.

Why did the pazrna inspekcija go with so much police? I am not saying or approving of what they do for a living but why take with you tons of police? Za predizvik? As far as I am concerned these people are making money. If you go in sutka to buy armani you know it's fake. Wembley market is the same in the uk and many markets. I am not making excuses but someone selling gaki doesn't need so much police to go heavy on them.

[TrueMacedonian]

Over 30% unemployment in the country,,,, I think that its been this way for a very long time. In my opinion anywhere else the government would have been toppled. I think the people should gather and protest the unemployment of the State and ask why it has changed little and what the government will do to help the people.

[fyrOM]

A slightly different 7 points.

1. Navedena gla sabja ne seci
A bowed head the sword does not cut
Also Titos secret police.

2. Ura da zivej drugar Tito. Da zivej Jugoslavia or else you wont.
Hurray long live Comrade Tito. Long live Yugoslavia. - or you wont. Clap when everyone else is clapping.

3. Daskalot I rabotejne vo tajna
The Teacher (a.k.a Goce Delcev) and working in secret
Also Tito and the Macedonian puppet government under Tito.

4. Koj sum jas.I Gupinot go klale da bidi car za den
(do you know) Who am I and the story of the gypsy who became king for a day.
Also Tito making it easy for the people from an impoverished Macedonia to want to emigrate
and send money home to poor loved ones ie making the diaspora into a foreign currency cash
cow. Funny how the foreign currency always stayed in Belgrade.


5. Nema. Ke vrvime nekoko.
There isn’t any. We’ll get by somehow.
Also Tito keeping most industries in Serbia Croatia and Slovenia creating an impoverished
Macedonia to make num 4.

6. Prikaznata za toj sto ukradil kokoska
The story of a man who stole a chicken.
Also Tito and the Macedonian puppet government and their relatives and friends and their friends ect.
The culture of you have to know someone to get something done.

7. Spiuni - spit - no need to explain
Spies and traitors - spit - no need to explain
Also Tito and the civilian spies supporting his secrete police.

Strange how Tito features in each of these points. And the Greeks say he is our mother and father and Jesus Christ.

Strpenie spacenie. Ne gubi nada.
Patience (is a) savoir. Don’t loose hope.

If you understand the above then you have answered your own question as to why.

[fyrOM]

The Pazarna Inspekcia obviously expected trouble and called in the police. Which part of Prolets post It wasnt peaceful at all the Gjupci threw punches and attacked the police. They were Pazardzii who were selling fake clothing and the Pazarna Inspekcija ordered for the material to be seized into trucks so the Pazardzii attacked them.

did you not understand to ask someone selling gaki doesn't need so much police to go heavy on them.

and also I am not making excuses but......ah yes you are.

[Jankovska]

The Pazarna Inspekcia obviously expected trouble and called in the police. Which part of Prolets post It wasnt peaceful at all the Gjupci threw punches and attacked the police. They were Pazardzii who were selling fake clothing and the Pazarna Inspekcija ordered for the material to be seized into trucks so the Pazardzii attacked them.

did you not understand to ask someone selling gaki doesn't need so much police to go heavy on them.

and also I am not making excuses but......ah yes you are.

That is just one side of the story. I think it might have a lot to do with the fact that it's all Gjupci right (which is an offensive term and you should use Romi). I wonder why Pazarna inspekcija doesn't do this in gostivar? How did they know they will be attacked? They had more police than in 2001? Or was this part of the plan? Wait until you hear both sides of the story, it is not going to be the first time the police has been brutal to people. Remember the stecajci, the mlekari? They all got beaten by the police. This filled the papers because it was 'Gjupci' in question.
When did you last go to Bit Pazar? Why not go with the police there? Why not? What about all the butici that buy roba from the same place?
A jacket in Bulgaria in Ilienci is 20 evra in Strumica Global is 6000 denari. Why not send the police there? Or shall we take the 'Gjupci' coz they are the easiest to beat up, right? Why not send the police in Crvenkovski's house, Gruevski and site ajduci in Makedonija? If there is a law there should be for everyone. Not different for the Siptari but different for the 'Gjupci'. At least they are trying after all discrimination they are facing in Macedonia to stay off the streets and earn some money. Afterall vladata najmnogu krade, siptarite rascvetaa biznisot so droga i prostitucija but we are sending the police to Sutka and to beat up the stecajci. Well done to them, kakvi mazi se. When I see them in Bit Pazar I will amen, till than it's all for political propaganda to gain Vmro yet another shitty point. it makes me sick

[fyrOM]

My reference to gupci is quoting Pelisters post.
In Gostivar the Pazarna Inspekcia probably have Albanians working for them and they know the I see no crime etiquette when a policeman takes his hat off for a moment.

[Risto the Great]

Afterall vladata najmnogu krade, siptarite rascvetaa biznisot so droga i prostitucija but we are sending the police to Sutka and to beat up the stecajci. Well done to them, kakvi mazi se. When I see them in Bit Pazar I will amen, till than it's all for political propaganda to gain Vmro yet another shitty point. it makes me sick

Well said Jankovska.
I think Macedonia often kids itself about matters such as this. It often tries to look like the perfect European country living the dream of European enlightenment. Meanwhile, they are selling "YIKE" sneakers and other ripoffs in Greece while the Africans go from person to person in Greek restaurants selling fake music CD's.

Tourists often like that cheap shit. Who gained from shutting the Roma down?

[Risto the Great]

A slightly different 7 points.

1. Navedena gla sabja ne seci
A bowed head the sword does not cut
Also Titos secret police.

2. Ura da zivej drugar Tito. Da zivej Jugoslavia or else you wont.
Hurray long live Comrade Tito. Long live Yugoslavia. - or you wont. Clap when everyone else is clapping.

3. Daskalot I rabotejne vo tajna
The Teacher (a.k.a Goce Delcev) and working in secret
Also Tito and the Macedonian puppet government under Tito.

4. Koj sum jas.I Gupinot go klale da bidi car za den
(do you know) Who am I and the story of the gypsy who became king for a day.
Also Tito making it easy for the people from an impoverished Macedonia to want to emigrate
and send money home to poor loved ones ie making the diaspora into a foreign currency cash
cow. Funny how the foreign currency always stayed in Belgrade.


5. Nema. Ke vrvime nekoko.
There isn’t any. We’ll get by somehow.
Also Tito keeping most industries in Serbia Croatia and Slovenia creating an impoverished
Macedonia to make num 4.

6. Prikaznata za toj sto ukradil kokoska
The story of a man who stole a chicken.
Also Tito and the Macedonian puppet government and their relatives and friends and their friends ect.
The culture of you have to know someone to get something done.

7. Spiuni - spit - no need to explain
Spies and traitors - spit - no need to explain
Also Tito and the civilian spies supporting his secrete police.

Strange how Tito features in each of these points. And the Greeks say he is our mother and father and Jesus Christ.

Strpenie spacenie. Ne gubi nada.
Patience (is a) savoir. Don’t loose hope.

If you understand the above then you have answered your own question as to why.

Wow. So close it hurts I reckon. Out of the 500 year Ottoman frying pan into the 100 year Titoist fire. I think Macedonians are surely well and truly cooked now. But now they have nobody to blame but themselves!