Zoran Vraniskovski proposes Slav Macedonia

[Vangelovski]

Why don't you put up or shut up, post me some quotes about what a state is rather than copping out and saying that I should do my own homework. By now you could have done so nearly a hundred times, but you still prefer to waste time and space with your evasiveness.

I listed a number of proper sovereign identifiers to describe historical entities not types of government. State in the modern sense should not be applied to historical concepts.

I already posted a definition of the state - maybe you didn't read it or you confused it with something else?

"Proper sovereign identifiers" - did you just coin that phrase yourself?

"State in the modern sense should not be applied to historical concepts"!?!?!?!?! That alone demonstrates your understanding of what a state is.

[Bratot]

The point here being the use of the proper definition of State, and not an altered one. The founding of a Macedonian state in it's proper sense, only took place in 1944, any extension of the term state to encompass historical contexts is merely wishful thinking. Kingdom, territory, empire, realms, monarchy, dynasty, or provinces are usually the typical identifiers for previous existing sovereign entities, and are not considered states in the proper sense. Of course through our biased hindsight we would like to expand the definition of state to encompass historical entities and thereby justify the existence of a modern state, this is true of all modern countries and some (greeks) take it to a new level of absurdity.

Dude.. you are spitting on your history, if not the medieval or ancient than on the Ilinden Uprising and the Krushevo Republic, you spit on so many uprisings which ideal was getting freedom and authonomy of the constant ethnically geographycal boundaries.

You simply does not understand that the current state of RoM emerged as the result of all efforts in historical continuity and every even 'temporary' sovereignty through history provide a direct evidence of a deep historical ethnic identification within this territorial unit and counsciousness of belongness to a state in exactly those boundaries.

That consciousness like it or not is reaching the Macedonian Kingdom and has been preserved in such form till nowadays.

[Buktop]

Another typical Buktop response when he's caught LYING.

once again, nothing worthwhile to say, nothing of substance to add

[Buktop]

I already posted a definition of the state - maybe you didn't read it or you confused it with something else?

"Proper sovereign identifiers" - did you just coin that phrase yourself?

"State in the modern sense should not be applied to historical concepts"!?!?!?!?! That alone demonstrates your understanding of what a state is.

What happened to those quotes and references you were going to post for me? Too busy dodging and weaving I see

[Buktop]

Dude.. you are spitting on your history, if not the medieval or ancient than on the Ilinden Uprising and the Krushevo Republic, you spit on so many uprisings which ideal was getting freedom and authonomy of the constant ethnically geographycal boundaries.

You simply does not understand that the current state of RoM emerged as the result of all efforts in historical continuity and every even 'temporary' sovereignty through history provide a direct evidence of a deep historical ethnic identification within this territorial unit and counsciousness of belongness to a state in exactly those boundaries.

That consciousness like it or not is reaching the Macedonian Kingdom and has been preserved in such form till nowadays.

You don't seem to understand what I am trying to say, take your time and read it slowly.

[Vangelovski]

What happened to those quotes and references you were going to post for me? Too busy dodging and weaving I see

Buktop, fortunately (for me), you are not the centre of my universe and I have more important things to do. However, I will try and post them here over the weekend, especially for you.

I posted them over and over for you on Maknews a while ago - why didn't you read them then?

[Buktop]

Buktop, fortunately (for me), you are not the centre of my universe and I have more important things to do. However, I will try and post them here over the weekend, especially for you.

I posted them over and over for you on Maknews a while ago - why didn't you read them then?

Oh, so you don't have five minutes to search for a quote from a scholarly authority on the subject and just post it here? I see, yet again dodging and weaving, you have wasted your time writing out nearly 10 posts mocking me when you could have used your time more rationally posting something of substance, good man.

[Vangelovski]

Oh, so you don't have five minutes to search for a quote from a scholarly authority on the subject and just post it here? I see, yet again dodging and weaving, you have wasted your time writing out nearly 10 posts mocking me when you could have used your time more rationally posting something of substance, good man.

Buktop,

Scholarly references are not found on google. I need to go through my books and journal articles and provide you with proper reading material. And no, I won't be picking out specific quotes for you, I will post you the references of books so that you can read them for yourself - if you are genuinly interested.

So why didn't you read the books that I provided you references for on Maknews?

[Onur]

TM,

My claim was that Macedonian states have existed and have been named "Macedonia" much earlier than 1944.

I think i wrote something about this issue b4 on another thread, ottoman archival documents calls as "Macedonia" for todays Macedonia lands, including todays north side of Greece.


I just checked Ottoman archives from website and found this;

The appointment of "Filidi efendi" as an officer to the Dolmabahce Palace, Istanbul. Son of Nikola Teriande Filidi, born in Monastir, Macedonia.

Date of the document : 1827

[makedonche]

Buktop

Quick question for you if I may, did the RoM & the Diaspora celebrate 100 years of Statehood in August 2nd 2003?

[Buktop]

Buktop,

Scholarly references are not found on google. I need to go through my books and journal articles and provide you with proper reading material. And no, I won't be picking it out specific quotes for you, I will post you the references of books so that you can read them for yourself - if you are genuinly interested.

So why didn't you read the books that I provided you references for on Maknews?

Try google books and put in key words, then sift through the ones you recognize and the ones you don't. It shouldn't take you more than 5 minutes vangelovski. But you are dodging and weaving, wasting your time mocking me. Put up or shut up...

I am more than competent enough to know the concepts and foundations of the creation of 19th century ideology and it's application to the modern concept of a State, just because you can't grasp what I am explaining to you does not mean there is a problem with my understanding, perhaps it's on your end that the problem exists?

[Vangelovski]

Try google books and put in key words, then sift through the ones you recognize and the ones you don't. It shouldn't take you more than 5 minutes vangelovski. But you are dodging and weaving, wasting your time mocking me. Put up or shut up...

I am more than competent enough to know the concepts and foundations of the creation of 19th century ideology and it's application to the modern concept of a State, just because you can't grasp what I am explaining to you does not mean there is a problem with my understanding, perhaps it's on your end that the problem exists?

Buktop,

Your own posts show your level of "competence".

Why didn't you read any of the books I provided references for on Maknews?

[Buktop]

Buktop

Quick question for you if I may, did the RoM & the Diaspora celebrate 100 years of Statehood in August 2nd 2003?

Can you tell me where the Macedonian state was from 1903-1944?

[Buktop]

Buktop,

Your own posts show your level of "competence".

Why didn't you read any of the books I provided references for on Maknews?

Wasting more time I see, hurry find those scholarly sources that you have been promising. Put up or shut up

[Vangelovski]

Wasting more time I see, hurry find those scholarly sources that you have been promising. Put up or shut up

Why didn't you read the books that I provided you references for on Maknews?