are macedonian men too much spoiled mummy's boys?

[Phoenix]

BiJ, who do you think is to blame in your example...surely you can't lay the blame squarely with the boy (although I strongly disagree with his actions and his attitude) but isn't this a very typical case of Southern European upbringing (excuse the generalization), where the 'role' of the female is significantly different to the 'role' of the male...?

The problem I believe is the huge seismic shift in generational attitudes and gender roles, from the way our parents were brought up to the way we live in our new world today.

Today the 'traditional' gender roles are somewhat less defined and definately less rigid than a generation or two ago. A greater sense of gender equality through education and vocational opportunities has altered the family unit by providing women with more independence than at any other time in history. Sadly some Macedonian boys/men are victims in this new dynamic, finding themselves ill-equipped to fill their new 'role' in society in general and the specific demands within their private relationships.

At the end of the day there's also a sense of responsibility on these useless boys/men to develop and broaden their domestic skills and be accountable for their 'role', particularly in the domestic fields of cooking and cleaning...

[Bij]

BIJ did she end up marrying the Macedonian boy who could not wash a dish?

yes, she did. idiot. why he couldn't just wash the bowl himself, i still can't understand. this is just one of many similar examples with the same guy who expects his wife to take his socks off when he gets home from work!

Pheonix, It would be easy to plant the blame on his parents (mum) for not raising him in a household where he had to make his bed, fold his clothes or wash a dish, but i honestly think once you're past a certain age, you just need to man up and do stuff around the house!

I can't say i'm not spoiled, my mum does most of the housework in our place, but if need be I don't mind getting my hands dirty and helping her or doing work for her when she cant or doesn't have the time. every one in my house works full time so we all pitch in where we can, not because I want to but because it has to get done.

your argument about generational changes works both ways. women dont stay home anymore (mostly) spending all day cooking and cleaning. we have full time jobs and responsibilities just like the men do. have the macedonian aussies forgotten this?

[osiris]

bj i agree with you despite what his background maybe he lives in australia in the 21st century not in macedonia in the 19th.

but phoenix is right to the girl in question is certainly not blameless and she has accepted his bullshit by marrying him.

[julie]

Taking his socks off after work? wow honestly she should have seen that one coming, good to know you are training the Aussie follow in what is not acceptable

And yes, most women work outside of the household now, and should not be expected to carry the workload at home as well

[Pavel]

i think phoenix and bij both make excellent points. though with the guy who was too lazy to wash a bowl at 5am and woke his wife up to do it...well thats too much, he must have known that his actions were wrong and stupid regardless of how pampered he had been at his parents house. you would hope though that this is an extreme example and that macedonian men are learning that when both in the marriage are working outside of the house, it is only fair they share the cooking and cleaning etc. at home....

[osiris]

julie most women have always worked outside the household from hunter gatherers to peasant and even industrial societies.

i cant think of a time when the didnt except for the upper classes and a short time in western socities after www2 some middle class and working class women who stayed home as housewives, but they were always a minority/
its time men stopped living in lala land and started to pull their weight.

i started to feel sorry for my mums plight when we started living in a nuclear family and didnt have a lady on duty to look after the houseid.

when we all lived in an extended family one of the 3 ladies stayed home and looked after the house and kids koga mu beshe redo.

[Pavel]

julie most women have always worked outside the household from hunter gatherers to peasant and even industrial societies.

i cant think of a time when the didnt except for the upper classes and a short time in western socities after www2 some middle class and working class women who stayed home as housewives, but they were always a minority/
its time men stopped living in lala land and started to pull their weight.

i started to feel sorry for my mums plight when we started living in a nuclear family and didnt have a lady on duty to look after the houseid.

when we all lived in an extended family one of the 3 ladies stayed home and looked after the house and kids koga mu beshe redo.

very pertinent historical comment osiris. and as a bloke who does all his own cooking and cleaning etc. i agree. its embarrassing to still see other friends who get their girlfriends and mums to actually come over to where they live and do their cooking and cleaning for them...and the knit picky way they complain if something isnt done exactly to their demands.

[osiris]

pavel male chauvinism is crap and i for one cannot support it.

my grandmother was the hardest working person in my extended family , she started work as an 8 year old in 1919 and worked until a year before her death at 88. she was smart organized tireless fair generous.

she is one of my heroes i will never be able to live up to her commitment to her family.

i love women and in the words of chairmen mao tse tung women hold up half of heaven and must be recognized as the equal of men asap everywhere including macedonian society and culture.

[julie]

Your a top dude osiris an absolute :SNAG:
and I agree with you there is still definitely an imbalance in households where everyone works full time, women tend to generally have a lot more to do as men have SELECTIVE EYESIGHT :

comments from my men in the house - let me know when you want anything done and then when I do the following comments:
Why does the floor need mopping, looks clean to me (cordial drips everywhere)
carpet looks clean to me - crumbs from the man of the house late night hidden chip snack attacks
batchroom is clean - drops of pee around the toilet cistern HOW do men miss the toilet bowl for god's sake?

My shirt needs ironing - where do we keep the iron?

When I get asked stupid questions I tend to respond in return - in the toilet bowl - and then I get blank looks.

I would have loved to live with a mother-in-law, to come home from work to a cooked meal, and things done around the house, I would have felt like a princess

[julie]

Pavel, your a champ too

[fyrOM]

A very entertaining thread.hahaha Every guy should learn how to cook clean mend a button ect to truly be self sufficient as a matter of survival technique regardless if your mum or wife does it. As my dad said to me none of us know the future and one day you may need to know how to do these things to live.

Years back when my parents went to Macedonia without me I found myself alone in the house for months. You can imagine I sort ofmade a mess but 2 days before I was due to pick them up from the airport I literally cleaned the house from top to bottom including dust over the architraves as I had previously been shown in annual spring cleaning drives.

[Pavel]

Pavel, your a champ too

thanks Julie. ozimak, you had a sensible dad, good on him.

often at big macedonian meetings there are not many women present. some of the men even complain about this. this is a major loss of input from a good part of the community. but if men shared the work at home and were just a bit more open minded, more women might have time to go and could contribute plenty to these gatherings. even in old vmro times there were women in the guerrilla bands and there were even some leaders. so there are precedents.

[osiris]

macedonian women are amazing and in most cases light years ahead of their spouses.

julie thank you

sensitivity is a quality i admire in people

but i am not new age i am old age lol

i cant handle oppression of any kind and if it is cultural or not doesnt make it any less intolerable.

ps i dont know if i am a guy anymore not now that even girls are called guys, i like women as women and dont want them to become guys there are too many guys as it is.

[Spartan]

Guys, you will probably rip me for this, but whats the point of getting married and settling with ONE woman if you have to do your own cooking, cleaning etc???

If thats the case, we might as well stay single, and enjoy all its benefits while having our mothers do the 'wife' work!!!!

Seriously though, I am just a bit old fashioned..... :lol

[molika]

Its been a long time between posts. Anyway, I would love to add to this interesting topic, speaking from own experience, I believe we ladies are to blame for our predicament we put ourselves in.
We can’t see past our hormones running wild, thinking it will be wedding bliss for ever. Once normal life sets in all of a sudden it’s the wives job to look after the husband and the house we SHARE(underlined).

It left me thinking, did my mum tell me this at some point. I don’t recall my husband, telling me I must wash dry and stack dishes for the rest of my married life. He does however vacuum, gather the cob webs every week, puts the rubbish out and collects any washing on the line. But I still complain, that’s not enough for me. Am I being unreasonable???


It nothing to do with which country you are born in my husband is bitolcanec no different to a satalbas bloke. lol.