Mixed Martial Arts / Boxing Thread

[Prolet]

SOM, Lennox Lewis proved to be the best, he is a schooled fighter he didnt come from the streets like Mike Tyson i think he has gold medals from the Olympics he was a very smart and dangerous fighter he even beat Vitaly Klitchko, however i'll never forget how he lost to that Ulichar Rahman in South Aftica, Lewis was pounding the shit out of him in the 5th round and out of nowhere Rahman comes out with a haymaker and knocks Lewis out, then in a rematch Lewis knocked him out in the 4th round with a vicious tupajnca.

Tyson ended up loosing $300 Million he had to sleep in homeless shelters, his story goes downhill from there on but i agree nobody can doubt his talent however in boxing you need more brains and thats why he struggled off the field he even bashed his wives. I remember when he said to Lennox Lewis that he was going to eat his children he just went crazy.

[Prolet]

Spartan, I think Robbyn Givens was his wife for something like 6 months and i remember her on Oprah stating how he used to bash her and Iron Mike even admitted to it, lets not forget the rape charges he went to jail for it.

The thing about Mike Tyson is that everyone was afraid of his power and so they should, however its not just the power the true boxers will say that you need to outsmart your opponent in order to beat them while with Mike Tyson he simply overpowered his opponents which is great for the spectators however its not just about power when it comes to boxing or any other fighting sport.

[Buktop]

I agree that Tyson in his early years was very terrifying, with the potential to be the best ever. Its just that as the competition got stiffer over time, he didnt rise to the occasion so to speak.

No it was the fact that Tyson was mismanaged and started taking drugs that lead to his downfall. You also fail to mention that in 1992 he was arrested and spent 3 years in prison, where, sorry to say, he could not practice boxing, then he faced Holyfield in 96. Not only that but his trainer died, who could he possibly turn to? Don King? If Tyson continued to train like he did before with D'amato he would be undoubtedly the worlds greatest boxer to ever live.

A combination of Drugs, Imprisonment, mismanagement, and the death of his mentor and primary trainer lead to his downfall.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Thats a record of 50 Wins, 6 Losses, 2 No Contest, 44 Knockouts
When the fight has gone beyond 3 rounds he is 13 - 5, so - so.

Not sure if I understand what you are saying, but in the first 21 fights there were 5 that went over 3 rounds, and the last 2 went the distance. Are you trying to tell me that Tillis and Green were guns? Come on mate. All they did better against the young Tyson than the previous suckers was avoid and defend, both were nevertheless complete victories.

Frank Bruno is no Mike Tyson, but he beat McCall - And McCall had previously knocked Lewis' block off in 2 rounds. Granted, he did appear to have zoned out in the follow up fight with Lewis when he refused to get up after a few rounds, but he is still winning fights today. Was Lewis beat by a bum or a gun? The point I am trying to make here is that as a boxer in his prime, Mike Tyson is well above all of these jokers.

As to ther Buster Douglas loss, whos problem is it that Tyson decided not to train?

You're detracting from the point, if Tyson even worked out for a week he would have destroyed Douglas. Holyfield was a good fighter, better than Lewis in my opinion, but Tyson at his prime? He was the best. That's the point here Spartan.

As for Lennox Lewis, he is easily a top 10 heavyweight of all time if Tyson is.............In fact, he beat the besty heavyweights of the time except a couple.

Lol...you must have it in for Tyson something bad to make such a fantastic statement like that Spartan, hahaha. If Tyson is a great, so then must be Lewis??? Don't do it to yourself man, I wouldn't - No, I couldn't, rank Lewis among the likes of Marciano, Tyson, Ali, Foreman, Frazier, heck, I reckon even Jack Dempsey would have dropped that British statue, lol. Seriously, he has a good record, but I saw nothing amazing in Lewis, if anything it is he who rose up the ranks beating bums in a power-vacuum heavyweight division while Tyson was doing time in prison. But, I am not trying to change your mind or perception of him, I can understand how he may hold a special place for you guys up there, why, being a Canadian Olympian, hall-of-famer, and all

Great fighters!?? Who?? Spinks, lol?

Of course, your view of Spinks is only that which you see after his anihilation from Tyson, the latter had that kind of effect. He was far from a bum, here is something from Wiki (where you got some of your snippets of info for Lewis):

Spinks had a record of 31 wins, 1 loss and 21 wins by knockout as a professional.

In addition to his success as a heavyweight, Spinks is generally considered one of the greatest light heavyweight champions and fighters in the history of the weight class.

On Ring Magazine's list of 100 greatest punchers of all time, Spinks was ranked 42nd.

On Ring Magazine's list of the 80 Best Fighters of the Last 80 Years, released in 2002, Spinks ranked 41st.

Tyson wasn't just about KO's, but it was a feature of his fighting ability and what he was capable of, all through his career, even during his amateur and Olympic spell, he was knocking people's heads off, there was nobody that could stop him, and if he didn't run into personal problems nobody would have. Lewis and Holyfield scrambled for the place to fight a guy who had done time and had been completely corrupted in several ways. Quite simply, they were not fighting Tyson in champion form, nor even in near peak form, forget his body size post-prison, when he knocked out Berbick he was smaller but leaner, quicker, and just as powerful. Is that something for Evander and Lennox to be proud of? Is that how they wished to be gauged against Tyson's true ability? Nobody with a developed interest and following for the sport would agree that pound for pound, at their best, Holyfield or Lewis were a match for Iron Mike. Well, you may find one or two people Spartan, you're a Lewis fanatic.

[Spartan]

Not sure if I understand what you are saying, but in the first 21 fights there were 5 that went over 3 rounds, and the last 2 went the distance.

My point is that his form drops dramatically after the 3rd round. All experts would agree that this is his major weakness. Generally, guys who have taken him past 3 round have had some success against him.

You're detracting from the point, if Tyson even worked out for a week he would have destroyed Douglas.

Sorry Soldier my friend, but 'ifs' dont do it for me. If Tyson did this, did that.... for the birds. To be an all time great(which I concede that Tyson, in his prime, was at such a level) you have to be focused throughout your career. You have to take the oppuirtunities in front of you, if not, someone else will.

Holyfield was a good fighter, better than Lewis in my opinion, but Tyson at his prime? He was the best. That's the point here Spartan.

I agree that there is an argument to be made(although I would argue it, lol), that in his prime, Tyson was fighting at the level of an all time great. However, how long was his prime? Do you consider the point in time he went to jail as the 'end of his prime? If so, that was in 91/92 (i think).
If you consider the end of his prime any earlier than that, then we are talking about a 'prime' of 4 years out of an 20 year career.
For me, not too convincing to be labelled as having a 'hall of fame career'.
Did he fight at a high level in his younger years - yes.
Could it be argued that he fought at the highest level ever - I guess.
Its too bad he didnt fight at this level against better competition so we could have a clearer picture.

Lol...you must have it in for Tyson

Wont lie, not a big fan.

something bad to make such a fantastic statement like that Spartan, hahaha. If Tyson is a great, so then must be Lewis???

I dont see what so fantastic about it. If you compare their carreers, Lewis ' was better imo. Tyson may have had a more 'explosive' prime, or start to his career than Lewis, but Lewis was way more consistent over his career, and his record proves this.

Don't do it to yourself man, I wouldn't - No, I couldn't, rank Lewis among the likes of Marciano, Tyson, Ali, Foreman, Frazier, heck, I reckon even Jack Dempsey would have dropped that British statue, lol.

I wouldnt rank Foreman or Frazier amongst the likes of Ali or Marciano, neither do I Tyson or Lewis. Im saying if Tyson can be ranked there, so can Lewis and Holyfield imo.

Seriously, he has a good record, but I saw nothing amazing in Lewis,

No one did, that was Lewis. He was a boring fighter, but efficient as all hell. The speed he had to compliment his enourmous frame, would be considered as a freak of nature. It was so hard to get inside on him, all his fights were the same. Jab..jab..jab..jab....combo, opponent clinches, break, repeat. You had to knock him out, as no one had a prayer on the scorecard. Just because he wasnt flashy, doesnt mean anything.

if anything it is he who rose up the ranks beating bums in a power-vacuum heavyweight division while Tyson was doing time in prison.

Again, whos fault is that? Lewis'? How can Lewis be blamed for Tysons buisiness? Any further debate on this point is strictly speculation

But, I am not trying to change your mind or perception of him, I can understand how he may hold a special place for you guys up there, why, being a Canadian Olympian, hall-of-famer, and all

Yeah, I cant deny that. I followed his career. On a different note, I must inform you, as well as being Canadian, he was also Jamaican and British over the course of his life . I remember every accent change, lol.

Tyson wasn't just about KO's, but it was a feature of his fighting ability and what he was capable of, all through his career, even during his amateur and Olympic spell, he was knocking people's heads off, there was nobody that could stop him,

he was not 'knocking peoples heads off' throughout his pro career. For the earlier part sure, although I question the pedigree of the competition.

and if he didn't run into personal problems nobody would have.

This is your opinion, and I respect it.

Lewis and Holyfield scrambled for the place to fight a guy who had done time and had been completely corrupted in several ways.

Lewis never 'scrambled' to fight Tyson. In fact, Tysons people actually dodged a fight with Lewis.

From 1996-
A New York judge this week ordered Tyson to make the next defence of his title against Lewis but after protracted transatlantic negotiations, an agreement was struck last night between Tyson's promoter Don King and Team Lewis.

Lewis will be paid [pounds sterling]4m to stand aside and allow Tyson to challenge Bruce Seldon for the WBA version of the heavyweight crown on July 13.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Tyson+dodges+Lewis+in+%5Bpounds+sterling%5D4m+pay-off.-a0111421540

Quite simply, they were not fighting Tyson in champion form, nor even in near peak form, forget his body size post-prison, when he knocked out Berbick he was smaller but leaner, quicker, and just as powerful.

I agree with this. No denying it actually.

Is that something for Evander and Lennox to be proud of?

Is it something they should be ashamed of? Is it their fault Tyson was not good anymore? All any man can do in boxing, is fight the man in front of them. The rest is speculation, better left for us to debate on internet forums .
Neither you or I could say definitively 'what would of hapenned' in hypothetical situations.

Spartan, you're a Lewis fanatic.

Guilty!

[Prolet]

Spartan, What about Hasim Rahman knocking out Lennox Lewis?

YouTube - Hasim Rahman KO Lennox Lewis

[Spartan]

Lowlight of his career, he was dominating that fight, and Rahman caught him with what I consider a very 'lucky' haymaker. Lewis handled his case 9 weeks later with no problems.
No real harm done, except to maybe Lewis' ego lol.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Spartan, I like this discussion!!

I will respond later to the rest, but in the meantime, ponder over this suggestion, I wouldn't mind going a few rounds with you the next time you are in Aus or i'm in Canada, lol. All in good nature of course

[Spartan]

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ !!
(wont take you long to figure that out )



We'll dance

Havent talked boxing in a while, you raise some very good points SoM.

[Soldier of Macedon]

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ !!

Τι έχετε φίλε μου?

[Prolet]

SOM, Merenje sili is a good way of going about it.

In the olden days, the strongest people used to go to eachothers villages and test their strength mainly by putting the other man in a headlock and squeezing till the person says enough or stop then they switch over and the person that lasts the longest wins.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Just in respect to the initial reason this topic was formed:

YouTube - Danny Green V Roy Jones Jr TKO 1


GO DANNY GREEN!!! AUSTRALIAN CHAMPION OF THE WORLD!!!

[Prolet]

Green will go down in history after that fight, brilliant!!

[Buktop]

I don't know if you can classify it as a history maker. He caught him with a good hit and then followed the knockdown with an all or nothing attack, I'm really surprised Jones stood there and took the hits, he didnt even try to move, he waited until he was already dead to clinch and by that time he was a goner.

If thats what Roy Jones has been reduced to I'm sorry to say that I have lost some respect for him

[Spartan]

He should have retired prior to the Tarver fights, that was the beginning of the end for Roy Jones in my opinion.