Shmuel Vaknin aka 'Sam' - The Liar

[Soldier of Macedon]

Зошто не кажав нешто за Мартин Бернал или за Виктор Фридман? И тие се евреи нели? Последен пат на англиски: Aryans are mostly atheists. Christianity is a semitic religion.

Sho posleden pat more, sho se inaetish badiala?

[Rogi]

ArMakedon, you are a disgrace. I see there is nothing humane in you for the moderators to believe you may change your views and posts.

Frank, I'm trully disappointed to read that you have innate racist views toward 'Blacks and Jews', racism in all forms is nothing less than disgusting and no human, particularly no Macedonian should ever be the propagator of racism especially given the plight of the Macedonians because of it.

[stravdziger]

Mr. Brandy tell that to the Jewish people who's families were slaughtered ..

So, what are you talking about? What did Vaknin have to do with the Holocaust?

[stravdziger]

ArMakedon, you are a disgrace. I see there is nothing humane in you for the moderators to believe you may change your views and posts.

Frank, I'm trully disappointed to read that you have innate racist views toward 'Blacks and Jews', racism in all forms is nothing less than disgusting and no human, particularly no Macedonian should ever be the propagator of racism especially given the plight of the Macedonians because of it.

BRAVO!

Macedonians are the most tolerant people in the Balkans, and I hope they remain that way.

[indigen]

BRAVO!

Macedonians are the most tolerant people in the Balkans, and I hope they remain that way.

And Macedonians are on the verge of extinction because the WORLD does NOT even accord them the basic right to self-determination. But what they are most TOLERANT of is their OWN NEGATION, i.e. slave/vassal mentality!!!

As for being "the most tolerant', I doubt it very much! How do you think a Black-American ("African-American") or someone, e.g. a male, of Black (Bantu) African racial heritage would be "TOLERATED" (in itself a racist concept vis-a-vis mutual racial and cultural respect) if married to a Macedonian and living in Ohrid, Bitola, Prilep, Strumica, Shtip, and etc.? I am pretty sure they would be subject to the most extreme crude intolerant racism imaginable, without a doubt!

Secondly, IMHO, if anyone is racist it is the Jewish ZIONISTS (almost all Jews in the world) that are one of the most EXTREME examples of practising racists and national/religious chauvinists on this planet! Have a close look at the state of Israel and the apologist Jewish Diaspora that backs ALL (99.9% for 99.9% of the time) its policies against the Palestinians blindly.

[indigen]

ArMakedon, you are a disgrace. I see there is nothing humane in you for the moderators to believe you may change your views and posts.

Frank, I'm trully disappointed to read that you have innate racist views toward 'Blacks and Jews', racism in all forms is nothing less than disgusting and no human, particularly no Macedonian should ever be the propagator of racism especially given the plight of the Macedonians because of it.

Rogi, please don't overreact mate and put things in perspective! Would you have responded in same way if someone said Dimitar Dimitrov is a Bulgar piece of shit or that Ali Ahmeti is a Shiptar piece of shit, which they certainly are?

[Rogi]

As for being "the most tolerant', I doubt it very much! How do you think a Black-American ("African-American") or someone, e.g. a male, of Black (Bantu) African racial heritage would be "TOLERATED" (in itself a racist concept vis-a-vis mutual racial and cultural respect) if married to a Macedonian and living in Ohrid, Bitola, Prilep, Strumica, Shtip, and etc.? I am pretty sure they would be subject to the most extreme crude intolerant racism imaginable, without a doubt!

You think so?

Here is one example of Simon Polikarp - Jimmy...

First black candidate for Macedonian Parliament

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/1357/52/

To be honest, it is becoming less and less uncommon as well - in fact a number of people from all over Africa have come to Macedonia and have married Macedonian men/women and have children with them, live in the villages and towns with them and are treated the same as everyone else.

I can attest to this with a further example, because I saw it for myself in my father's town where a Macedonian man had married a Nigerian woman and have a beautiful daughter, in her 20's, who was raised in Macedonia.

[Rogi]

Rogi, please don't overreact mate and put things in perspective! Would you have responded in same way if someone said Dimitar Dimitrov is a Bulgar piece of shit or that Ali Ahmeti is a Shiptar piece of shit, which they certainly are?

I wouldn't care in the slightest how those individuals are referred to, in fact I'd even say that would be too generous of a description.

But I don't think that saying all Greeks, or all Bulgarians, or all Serbs, or all Albanians or all [Insert Nation Here] are [Insert Derogatory Term Here] is right at all. I certainly don't feel that to be true.

[indigen]

I wouldn't care in the slightest how those individuals are referred to, in fact I'd even say that would be too generous of a description.

But I don't think that saying all Greeks, or all Bulgarians, or all Serbs, or all Albanians or all [Insert Nation Here] are [Insert Derogatory Term Here] is right at all. I certainly don't feel that to be true.

I agree about all that but I don't think ArMacedon stated that and Frank was just trying to rationalise what we may think, and to a certain extent he is correct when relating to the general mak population. Correct me if I missed something posted in this thread (or elsewhere).

Secondly, one should allow for certain amount of venting room against our enemies from time to time and overlook non-PC terminology or designations.

So pochit,
I.

[indigen]

You think so?

Here is one example of Simon Polikarp - Jimmy...

First black candidate for Macedonian Parliament
http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/1357/52/

That may be so, him being a candidate and whatever else he is, but I stand by what I said. I remember a recent case where black members of a European (I think English?) football team were subject to open and very crude racist abuse (vocal racist taunting) at a match played either in Skopje or one of the provincial stadiums and I also remember an interview (in the last 10 years or so) with an African man married to a Macedonian woman (it may even have been this same guy) who was explaining his experiences with the ingrained racism in provincial Macedonia (or Macedonia in general).

To be honest, it is becoming less and less uncommon as well - in fact a number of people from all over Africa have come to Macedonia and have married Macedonian men/women and have children with them, live in the villages and towns with them and are treated the same as everyone else.

I like to believe you but I still think racism against non-Europeans, and especially blacks/Africans, would be rampant in Macedonia, and more so in provincial towns and villages.

I can attest to this with a further example, because I saw it for myself in my father's town where a Macedonian man had married a Nigerian woman and have a beautiful daughter, in her 20's, who was raised in Macedonia.

Mate, racism is rampant in Australia and the rest of the West but ones needs to know how to identify it. About 10 to 15 years ago there was a Black female news presenter on the ABC (English father and either African or Jamaican/West Indian mother) who grew up thinking she was white (she looked black) and Australians made her realise she was not white and she ended up having a nervous breakdown because of it. If subtle racism was not so pevalent in the West/USA, IMO, you would not see so many African-American women, especially ones aspiring to some status in their society, using damaging chemical to have UNNATURAL-LOOKING straight hair, which infuriates Africanists and adherents of Black Consciousness.

[Rogi]

I think you're perhaps talking more about self-denigration / self-racism and conformism in the above.

In any case, this brings me to the story of 'When the Axe came into the Forest', a story that I believe is so profound and wish everyone, particularly Macedonians, would read it... I posted it here some time ago:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=24427

[indigen]

I think you're perhaps talking more about self-denigration / self-racism and conformism in the above.

You can do your own research on the cause and effect of that phenomena but I doubt that many of those career black women would get the chance to succeed if they started wearing dreadlocks and Afro and other traditional African hairstyles, which many are absolutely stunning! :-)

As for Macedonian racism at its worst, see the following:



Liverpool's Europa League win over FK Rabotnicki tainted by racist taunts
By Sportsmail Reporter Last updated at 9:51 AM on 30th July 2010

Liverpool's Europa League opponents FK Rabotnicki could face action if UEFA authorities are alerted to an incident of racist crowd behaviour.

Pictures have emerged from Liverpool's 2-0 over the Macedonian side in Skopje of supporters directing monkey taunts towards the English side's players.

Liverpool started the third qualifying round tie at the Philip II Stadium with two black players in their side in double goalscorer David Ngog and 19-year-old winger David Amoo.

Macedonian football has had a problem with racist behaviour in the past. In September 2003, England players Emile Heskey, Sol Campbell and Ashley Cole were all the subject of abuse in an international against Macedonia at the same stadium.

An English flag was also burned and European governing body UEFA later fined the Football Federation of Macedonia £10,730.


At the double: Ngog scored either side of half-time in Liverpool's 2-0 win


Meanwhile Daniel Agger lauded the performance of double goalscorer Ngog.

'We have got to give David credit for the two goals. He took them very well – it was a very good performance,' the Liverpool defender said.

'He was there in the right place at the right time, which is what all good strikers do. He is a good player and has the qualities but he knows that he still has a bit to learn.

'I know that he works hard every day but if he continues to work hard then he will come on a long way. But he has to keep working hard, as every one of us is doing, if he wants to get there.'

http://www.redcafe.net/f7/liverpools-europa-league-win-over-fk-rabotnicki-tainted-racist-taunts-304029/

[Soldier of Macedon]

..........in Ohrid, Bitola, Prilep, Strumica, Shtip, and etc.? I am pretty sure they would be subject to the most extreme crude intolerant racism imaginable, without a doubt!

What on earth are you talking about? What evidence, aside from isolated cases, do you have? You make it sound like people will hurl stones at them as they walk on the street, is that what you think will happen? Where are your statistics? On what do you base your opinion, football hooligans? Don't try and justify this pathetic view based on your own xenophobia, and don't look for excuses to cover up the racism of others. If you are one of those people that utters racial slurs under their breath, then you're a sad little weasel and a huge disappointment.

I hate racists. One's race should never be the determining factor on how they are perceived.

[indigen]

What on earth are you talking about? What evidence, aside from isolated cases, do you have? You make it sound like people will hurl stones at them as they walk on the street, is that what you think will happen? Where are your statistics? On what do you base your opinion, football hooligans? Don't try and justify this pathetic view based on your own xenophobia, and don't look for excuses to cover up the racism of others. If you are one of those people that utters racial slurs under their breath, then you're a sad little weasel and a huge disappointment.

SOM, you don't know me, so don't make presumptions or assumptions about how racist I may or may not be. I am pretty sure my anti-racist deeds and credentials are as good, if not better, than most or any MTO member here!

Repeated crude racist taunting at international sports matches is a good indicator, IMO, of the general malaise inflicting Macedonian society. Crude ignorant racist attitude amongst Macedonians in regards to Africans is present even amongst the ruling circles. Talk to people and see what they say about Africans and how they perceive them. I did not say anything about physical attacks or refusing service to anyone.

[Prolet]

You think so?

Here is one example of Simon Polikarp - Jimmy...

First black candidate for Macedonian Parliament

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/1357/52/

To be honest, it is becoming less and less uncommon as well - in fact a number of people from all over Africa have come to Macedonia and have married Macedonian men/women and have children with them, live in the villages and towns with them and are treated the same as everyone else.

I can attest to this with a further example, because I saw it for myself in my father's town where a Macedonian man had married a Nigerian woman and have a beautiful daughter, in her 20's, who was raised in Macedonia.

Rogi, During the SFRJ era Tito formed a partnership with the African nations and there were many students who came to Macedonia to study and there were some who stayed, got married and live in Macedonia even till today. Jimmy is a good example, he works in a hospital with under privileged and handicapped children. In Skopje there are still people from Africa mainly Nigeria,Cameroon and Egypt who speak perfect Macedonian.