Macedonian denied rights

[Stevce]

Hi guys, here's a document that the Macedonian Community of Western Australia posted on their face book account. In nationality Macedonian has been scratched out and replaced with Greek.
I hope the link works if not I have saved the picture, but don't know how to post it on here.

https://www.facebook.com/MacedonianCommunityWA/photos/a.352553248157526.84515.351786018234249/1042214039191440/?type=3&theater

[Amphipolis]

Hi guys, here's a document that the Macedonian Community of Western Australia posted on their face book account. In nationality Macedonian has been scratched out and replaced with Greek.
I hope the link works if not I have saved the picture, but don't know how to post it on here.
https://www.facebook.com/MacedonianC...type=3&theater

What the Australian authorities did, was correct actually. Nationality does not refer to a self-defined national identity. For instance, a Greek from Bulgaria would have Bulgarian nationality.

[Redsun]

It was stamped, 4th October 1949.

“Nationality” has previously been used to refer to ethnic groups, only recently has it become commonly regarded as a status of belonging to a nation.

There is no reason to corrupt a document.

[Karposh]

Not really sure when the meaning of the term “nationality” was changed to mean simply as belonging to a nation or state or whether it always meant that. I always thought that nationality was synonymous with national identity or ethnicity but apparently not.

I hate to admit it but I think Amphipolis might be correct in this case. In the context of passports, the term nationality does not refer to what ethnicity or “national identity” a person is but whether he or she is a “national” of the country specified on the passport. That is, whether he or she is or was a resident of that country. The closest term in meaning would be a “citizen” of that country although the two terms differ slightly in meaning. The term national can include both citizens and non-citizens with the only difference being that citizens are allowed to vote. From Wikipedia, “a person may be a national of a state, in the sense of having a formal legal relationship with it, without subjectively or emotionally feeling a part of that state.”

Still, regardless of whether Australian officials were justified in doing what they did, it was not cool from our vantage point. From a human point of view and not a cold and sterile bureaucratic one, this technicality doesn’t ease the pain for Macedonians. I can only wonder what went through the mind of that poor family when the Australian officials scribbled out Macedonian and replaced it with Greek. They must have thought the whole world was conspiring against the Macedonians. Here they were, fleeing a country that was denying their ethnicity, where in their attempt to hide the existence of these non-Greek people, even the dead weren’t spared any dignity. God only knows how many Macedonian tombstones the Greeks defaced, scratching out the Cyrillic letters or demolishing them wholesale. Similarly, churches with evidence of centuries-old continued Macedonian existence vandalised for going against the Greek national myths of the newly established Greek state on Macedonian soil.

[Redsun]

Nationality.

1. the status of belonging to a particular nation.
2. an ethnic group forming a part of one or more political nations.

I don’t think the meaning has changed, what has changed is the context in which it is used. I also thought that nationality was synonymous with national identity and ethnicity, I hope this gets discussed further as terminology is really important.

In regards to the context of the passport, I don’t understand why the country couldn’t accept the gentlemen as of Macedonian nationality.

I wonder how the Authorities treat the term now due to political correctness, under what nationality are the Kurdish refugee applicants processed?

[Karposh]

Fair point.

[Momce Makedonce]

Well I personally more so use it in that way too. Nationality I view as the country that I am born/live in, whereas my background is where my ancestors originated from. So I say my nationality is Australian, my background is Macedonian.

But many people here in Australia especially younger ones will ask what your nationality or "nasho" is when asking for your ethnic background, so I feel as though there is different ideas of what the term means in the modern day.

[Karposh]

I was just thinking in terms of AMHRC’s leaflet on the upcoming Australian Census and their advice on how to answer some of the questions regarding ethnicity. For a second there I thought we might have confused the matter with all this talk of nationality Vs ethnic or national identity. However, I double checked the information on the leaflet and Question 18 refers to “Ancestry” and not nationality so there can be no confusion.

If I can just take this opportunity to also stress what AMHRC are trying to put out there, it is very important to declare “Macedonian” as being the ancestry of your family background for Question 18, regardless of whether you were born in Australia or your parents or grandparents came from RoM, Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia or Albania. That’s what that question aims to guage – your family’s ancestry. It doesn’t care where your family originally came from but how you and your family identify at home.

No one has the right to scribble Macedonian out this time around so please make sure you put down Macedonian.

[sydney]

Tito worked very quickly to establish the feeling of Macedonian nationality, even across borders.

[Amphipolis]

Nationality.

1. the status of belonging to a particular nation.
2. an ethnic group forming a part of one or more political nations.

I don’t think the meaning has changed, what has changed is the context in which it is used. I also thought that nationality was synonymous with national identity and ethnicity, I hope this gets discussed further as terminology is really important.

That is not the main definition of nationality (in English) and especially its' meaning as a legal term. See here for example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality

or here

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/nationality

In regards to the context of the passport, I don’t understand why the country couldn’t accept the gentlemen as of Macedonian nationality.

Because, he was an immigrant of Greek nationality, i.e. he was a Greek citizen. What is it that you don't understand?

I wonder how the Authorities treat the term now due to political correctness, under what nationality are the Kurdish refugee applicants processed?

That implies that Rapos was persecuted in Greece or that he asked for a political asylum in Australia which doesn't seem to be the case. He seems to have immigrated legally with a license from Greece.

[Redsun]

That is not the main definition of nationality (in English) and especially its' meaning as a legal term. See here for example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality

or here

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/nationality

I disregarded “nationality” as a legal term which was moronic as the subject of this thread is a legal document. I have misunderstood and misused the word for its alternative meaning.

Because, he was an immigrant of Greek nationality, i.e. he was a Greek citizen. What is it that you don't understand?

I understand.

That implies that Rapos was persecuted in Greece or that he asked for a political asylum in Australia which doesn't seem to be the case. He seems to have immigrated legally with a license from Greece.

How does it imply that Rapos was persecuted in Greece or that he requested political asylum? Is it because I used the word “authorities” which you yourself had used previously in post #2 or because you think that I am what, making a comparison? This was a single statement, which is not a part of any paragraph or statement concerning the issue. It was purely inquisitive and separated from the above with a line of space.

What should have I done, create a post for that line alone?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Nationality in Australia

In Australia, 'nationality' in official documents generally refers to the country of birth and where you have citizenship. For example, despite being of mixed Irish/Macedonian ancestry, my Australian passport and other documents list my nationality as 'Australian' despite my family being immigrants, because I was born here. My Irish passport however declares my nationality as 'Irish' despite being of Australian birth. I should also mention that this document somewhat surprises me since I have seen many other Australian documents from the past where nationality is explicity stated as 'Macedonian', I am sure some of these documents were Western Australian as well.

[Bill77]

That is not the main definition of nationality (in English) and especially its' meaning as a legal term. See here for example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality

or here

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/nationality

Because, he was an immigrant of Greek nationality, i.e. he was a Greek citizen. What is it that you don't understand?

So why is it here in Australia (and I bet every other country) generations born outside of Greece when asked what nationality they are, respond Greek and just stop sort of singing the Greek national anthem? And I'm talking about generations as far as 3rd and 4th ...

What is it they don't get?
Mabe you should slap them around Amphipolis.... Teach them a lesson.