Macedonian Patriotic Organization

[Prolet]

Vangelovski, How about respect,unity,friendship,working together?? This is a chance to make things right, lets not forget that you put in alot of time and effort towards the UMD i can only hope that it doesnt go to waste.

If you follow the Maknews forum i been a critic of the UMD, but overall they have done alot of good for our Diaspora nobody is perfect and there is always room for dialogue and to solve our differences. Koj Raboti Toj i Greshi

[Vangelovski]

Prolet, do you speak for Meto or UMD? If so, what is the reason that Meto is coming to Australia, other than to spread UMD ideas and push a membership drive?

[Prolet]

what makes you think I won't be attending any of his propaganda sessions?

Vangelovski, What Propaganda Sessions?? Thats not the reason why he is coming to Australia.

[Vangelovski]

Buktop, while you're here, why don't you entertain us with some more of your psuedo-legal theories

[Vangelovski]

Buktop, the quotes that Indigen provided belong to Meto, thats why Meto responded. I've been calling on Meto for a public debate for years now, only to have him duck, weave and hid behind his cheerleaders like yourself - what makes you think I won't be attending any of his propaganda sessions?

[Buktop]

How about UMD explain its actual comments in question?

I'm sorry, do the quotes belong to UMD or to Meto? Why don't you ask him when you see him? Oh I forgot, you won't be attending.

[Vangelovski]

How about UMD explain its actual comments in question?

[UMDiaspora.org]

UMD's position on the Bulgarian Prime Minister: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/394/52/

UMD on Macedonian minority in Bulgaria: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/151/52/
Fact Sheet on Macedonian minority in Bulgaria (little outdated, needs updating): http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/156/52/

UMD op-ed on Bulgaria and Bozhidar Dimitrov: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/427/9/

UMD's statement on Buckovski's insult to celebrate Ilinden with Bulgaria: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/105/52/

[Buktop]

Why would chapters with "full Macedonian consciousness" continue to remain in an organisation that is run by Bugaromani?

I don't know, why don't you ask them?

You, "Buktop", should read this whole thread before asking such questions. If you did this, there may be no need to ask as the answer would be clear from what you would/should have read.

I did read the thread, the questions were hypothetical and sarcastic.

Anyhow, the MPO is not only participating but is actually heading the Census Coalition, which, IMO, is a bit too much of a concession to them and also providing prestige and credibility to what was a declining and dying organisation. Why revive the enemy?

They still have a lot of support in the Mid-West of the USA, this position will not necessarily revive the MPO but will draw them closer to pro-Macedonian stance. IMO it is a good thing

Read the thread thoroughly and you will see that there is a new modus operandi for the Bugaromani in MK and amongst the Macedonians, the old way does not work, though some die-hard bugaromani still prefer to operate that way. I will give you a hint, it is all related to how deep they will allow Macedonian ethno-national roots to be. :-)

Noted

See, if they achieve their objective of implanting in Macedonians, through propaganda, that our pre 1945 ethnic roots are "Bulgarian", then it will be easy to carry out the next step - conversion. It is a longer term plan attacked on many fronts and quite successfully on the political front in Mk. They achieved to take power via Ljubcho Georgievski and are quite entrenched in various state, political and media structures and institutions in the republic.

Agreed

That is one way to look at it but there is also a few other ways, too. Meto's view on our Macedonian language sure sounds like the MPO had the better of him. :-)

Repeat, Meto's statement from 2004, not the UMD's.

I am not against MPO participating in the Census campaign but should they be heading it? By giving them too much credit and promotion, you give them greater ability to recruit amongst Macedonians. UMD and other Macedonians should be recruiting the MPO members in order to cause that organisation to die out and should NOT be giving it a blood transfusion so that it revives.

True, but it may also work the other way, in which they become supportive of pro-Macedonian organizations rather than reverting to their old ways. Some new attitudes coming out of the MPO as posted before give me hope.

When a normal Macedonian reads Meto's view on the Macedonian language, as I said previously, he/she gets the impression that MPO has flipped or nobbled him.

Once again, I do not know why he made those statements, you should ask him when he shows up in Australia. Those statements were also made 6 years ago, and people can make mistakes, it is human nature.

[Buktop]

I don't think UMD are pro-Bulgar, and while the MPO certainly have such elements, I would like to think that the UMD aren't so stupid as to allow the Bugaromani to take any sort of role, or even existence within this collaborated effort concerning the census (which is a brilliant idea).

Buktop, please read the below, where Meto relays the statements of the "MPO director":

Now, look at what Meto says himself:

I'd like to see your opinion on the above, as I am stuck at what Meto thinks he meant by "reorganization" of the Macedonian language, and how easily he seems to have swallowed what the "MPO director" administered to him.

SoM I don't know what to think about those statements, a lot has changed since 2004, and as you have said before, people make mistakes.

My point is, whether Meto made those statements, UMD did not.

[Risto the Great]

Sure, I understand ... who cares? ... the MPO is flawed, but they will help to ensure the census results are better for Macedonians. So what that they think the Macedonian ethnic identity started from 1950.

So what the UMD thinks a reliance on historical facts should be avoided.

So what some name changes were acceptable to the UMD leadership.

The UMD should adopt the "Macedonian Cause" and then see what fits thereafter. The MPO would not.

[indigen]

When concerning the MPO, I'll admit that even though I live in the USA (New Jersey to be specific) I have not heard of them other than on the Maknews forum. I have heard they are pro-Bulgarian, and I have also heard that there are chapters that retain a full Macedonian consciousness.

Why would chapters with "full Macedonian consciousness" continue to remain in an organisation that is run by Bugaromani?

Hearing that UMD will allow them to participate in the upcoming census committee,

You, "Buktop", should read this whole thread before asking such questions. If you did this, there may be no need to ask as the answer would be clear from what you would/should have read.

Anyhow, the MPO is not only participating but is actually heading the Census Coalition, which, IMO, is a bit too much of a concession to them and also providing prestige and credibility to what was a declining and dying organisation. Why revive the enemy?

I can only ask, if the MPO is pro-Bulgarian, why would they support a declaration of Macedonian on a census? Wouldn't they advocate, Bulgaro-Macedonian or some similar variation?

Read the thread thoroughly and you will see that there is a new modus operandi for the Bugaromani in MK and amongst the Macedonians, the old way does not work, though some die-hard bugaromani still prefer to operate that way. I will give you a hint, it is all related to how deep they will allow Macedonian ethno-national roots to be. :-)

If they achieve their objective, through propaganda, of reconfiguring our pre 1945 ethnic roots as "Bulgarian", then it will be easy to carry out the next step - conversion. It is a longer term plan attacked on many fronts and quite successfully on the political front in Mk. They achieved to take political state power via Ljubcho Georgievski and are now quite entrenched in various state, political and media structures and institutions in the republic.

The key phrase that comes to mind is keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

That is one way to look at it but there is also a few other ways, too. Meto's view on our Macedonian language sure sounds like the MPO had the better of him. :-)

If UMD includes MPO in the census bureau they can limit the individual influence that Bugarashi may have on Macedonians to declare Bulgaro-Macedonian. It may also have a beneficial effect by introducing a positive Macedonian influence on the members of MPO to realize that they are in fact Macedonians and not Bulgarians.

By giving "MPO" credit and promotion, you give them greater ability to recruit amongst Macedonians. UMD and other Macedonians should be recruiting the MPO members in order to cause that organisation to die out and should NOT be giving it a blood transfusion so that it revives.

I can only view claims of a pro-Bulgarian movement in the UMD as laughable. The statements, actions, views and movements that come out of UMD are clearly not associated with any sort of Bulgarian agenda.

When a normal Macedonian reads Meto's view on the Macedonian language, as I said previously, he/she gets the impression that MPO has flipped or nobbled him.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Prolet, why do you ask irrelevant questions that have obvious answers?

[Prolet]

SOM, The R naopaku is JA remember?

[Soldier of Macedon]

I don't think UMD are pro-Bulgar, and while the MPO certainly have such elements, I would like to think that the UMD aren't so stupid as to allow the Bugaromani to take any sort of role, or even existence within this collaborated effort concerning the census (which is a brilliant idea).

Buktop, please read the below, where Meto relays the statements of the "MPO director":

Meto Koloski:"....Another confusion is the use of "Bulgarian" language in their newspaper, which I highly recommend subscribing to, very informative, no offense to anyone here. I'm subscribed to the Tribune because I want to learn what MPO does and also because it is in English and that is the language I was educated in......

''.....The MPO director said that this language is the language they always spoke, and that it is a Macedonian language.

Now, look at what Meto says himself:

In fact, the language they speak is the language before Blaze Konevski did a reorganization of the Macedonian language in the 40s and 50s taking out the iy, yu, ya "meki znaci," and replacing them with Serbian ones...."

I'd like to see your opinion on the above, as I am stuck at what Meto thinks he meant by "reorganization" of the Macedonian language, and how easily he seems to have swallowed what the "MPO director" administered to him.