Macedonian Patriotic Organization

[Da Zhive IMRO]

blagodarerm bre

[Piperka]

First of all, Bog da go prosti tatkoti.

Srbomani? Brainwashed by Tito? Seriously...what are you talking about? Just because the MPO is a bugarofil organization does not mean that anyone opposed to what the MPO has historically stood for is a srboman.

The MPO, Pan-Macedonians, and the Srboman churches in Detroit are all in the same category for me - NOT MACEDONIAN. Therefore, those of us on the other side are simply put - proud Macedonians that are disgusted with the things that we have seen those organizations and people support.

Maybe you need to look back in your history and clean up the blemishes that fog up the lens of the MPO. You say that you are only Macedonian, but some of the things that you posted on this forum make me believe that those blemished lenses have been passed on to the next generation of MPO members.

In order to understand where we are coming from, try reading some of the things that the organization you are a member of has published. Not within the last 10 years when the MPO tried to become more Macedonian when they saw their membership dwindling, but go back to the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Hear what former MPO Presidents had to say about their ethnicity and what they believe a Macedonian to be. Ask the MPO Board why they allowed for it's members to write-in Bulgaro-Macedonian for the Census.

The reasons why Macedonians in the US do not like the MPO has nothing to do with "political BS" but everything to do with the anti-Macedonian crap the MPO has been spewing since it's creation. My lens is blemish-free when it comes to my identity and that is why I never have and never will support the MPO.

[Soldier of Macedon]

We don't believe in the political BS of your and my fathers generation, as i assume you are in his generation.

No, I am not in your father's generation. And no, my father did not subscribe to propaganda. Your father, unfortunately did subscribe to propaganda, which is a damn shame. Piperka makes a strong point:

......has nothing to do with "political BS" but everything to do with the anti-Macedonian crap the MPO has been spewing since it's creation. My lens is blemish-free when it comes to my identity and that is why I never have and never will support the MPO.

By the way DZI, when time permits, please find me this statement as indicated in your words below:

........my own father is quoted on this very site as saying is a descendant iof the soldiers of alexander

Such words would be totally out of character for your father, so I find it hard to believe.

Bugaroman politics has always tried to confine the memory of Macedonians to the VMORO period, as we all know, Macedonian history is so much more.

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://obits.cleveland.com/obituaries/cleveland/obituary.aspx?n=tom-c-alusheff-tasho&pid=143272702

ALUSHEFF TOM C. "TASHO" ALUSHEFF, age 56, beloved husband of Andrea Andrioff ; dear father of Chris and Alex; son of Zorka and the late Chris Alusheff; brother of Kathy (Mike) Galgoczy and Vicky (George) Glavinos. Tom was a 1972 Collinwood High School graduate where he was city wrestling champion. He worked as a bouncer at Agora Nightclub for many years. He was a Cleveland Police Patrolman from 1979-1986. During his police years he performed as a comedian under the name Morey Cohen. After retiring from the Police Dept., he worked in the family business (Baker's Candy) until 1996 when he joined Progressive Insurance Co. Tom was a member of St. Nicholas Orthodox Church and a lifelong member of his beloved Macedonian Patriotic Organization. Passed away May 29, 2010. Funeral Service Friday June 4 at 10:00 A.M. at St. Nicholas Orthodox Church, 9650 Johnnycake Ridge Rd. (Mentor) where family will receive friends THURSDAY 2-4 AND 6-8 P.M. PANAHIDA SERVICES THURSDAY AT 7:00 P.M. Interment Western Reserve Memorial Gardens. Contributions to Macedonian Patriotic Organization (124 West Wayne St., Ft. Wayne, Indiana 46802) would be appreciated.

[Soldier of Macedon]

....however I am a macedonian with no other blood in me, im not bulgarian although i do believe they were accomodating during the years of alexander todoroff and vanchge mihailoff, i do not believe we have the same blood as them

DZI, Todor Alexandrov was influenced by some Exarchate propaganda but towards the end of the life he appears to have rid himself of it. Vanche Mihailov is his successor, a traitor to the Macedonian people. Would you agree or disagree with that assessment?

How exactly were the Bulgars "accomodating" during Alexandrov's and Mihailov's time? Wasn't Pirin a virtual Macedonian state within the Bulgarian state in their day?

[Mikail]

DZI, Bog da go prosti tatko ti.

If it is true that you and many of your generation do not subscribe to the Bulgarianisation of our people then we all look forward to you and your generation changing the values of the MPO for what they would have stood for when it was first created all those years go.

In it's current form, MPO stands on the same side of the fence as the Pan-Macedonians..... that being a pro-anther state and anti a Macedonian State.

We all here on MTO have been affected by some form of propaganda against Macedonians and this is why we are all here. United to expose the lies and to unearth the truth which is the Macedonian Truth.

Join us to correct the wrongs of the previous generation and bring about unity amongst our people.

[Mikail]

Here in lies the deep seated problem we see in the MPO. Clips of MPO rallies in 1922 depicted as them being Bugarian. How many Bulgarians lived in Kostur as the clips author likes to suggest?

YouTube - Macedonian Patriotic Organization of the Bulgarians -- USA 3

[Mikail]

Here we go. An un-tampered clip from 1933.

DZI, the value of the original members of MPO were what we stand for. Work with us in exposing the lies of Bulgarian infiltration into the MPO.

YouTube - 12th anual convention of Macedonian PO 1933 Detroit USA

[Da Zhive IMRO]

First, to address SOM about my fathers quote, the quote was posted on a forum on this site, but was taken from another site he was on, I dont know whether he was a member here or not, maybe you would know that info. Secondly, the MPO is Anti-pan-macedonian, as they are a greek organization under the guise of a macedonian name, and we dont associate with them. Also, i get my info about bulgaria being accomodating to IMRO in pirin from the book heroes and assassins by stojan Christowe written in the early '30s. Yes pirin was an independent macedonian state within bulgaria, and the only reason bulgaria didnt grant formal sovereignity was a fear of retribution from greece and serbia, who already stomped on bulgaria in the past and could have done it again. They granted this self governance to imro so they could have a base from which to spread there influence and revolutionary ideals to aegean and vardar makedonia, under the hope that they could jumpstart their own fight for sovereignity to reform the boundaries from the treaty of 1878 without the help from bulgarian gov't for diplomatic reasons.

[Da Zhive IMRO]

As far as the videos mikail, i have seen them to and dont doubt their authenticity, however that was 80 years ago, and I cant help what the mpo said then. But metaphorically speaking, if your born into a communist government, does that necesarily mean you are a devoutly subscribe to their doctrine?

[Risto the Great]

But metaphorically speaking, if your born into a communist government, does that necesarily mean you are a devoutly subscribe to their doctrine?

DZI, using your metaphor, if you are born into the MPO does it mean you subscribe to the belief that you are an ethnic Bulgarian? Naturally it does not.

The MPO doctrine is that ethnic Macedonians like you and me are in fact ethnic Bulgarians. You either follow this misguided belief or you don't. If you find my line of questioning too confronting, a common psychological response is to oppose it with a misguided sense of duty and force. The same phenomena occurs with Grkomani. But if you honestly look at this with fresh eyes, you may have to admit you have no idea why the MPO decided to advise its membership recently to self describe as ethnic Bulgarians in the upcoming census. Equally, you have no idea why you are honouring an organisation that is (at best) fundamentally flawed and at worst nothing but a tool of the Bulgarian government in a similar way that the Grkomani are tools of the Greek government.

On an irrelevant note, I question your spelling "zhivje". I honestly have not heard such a pronunciation like that. I would be far more comfortable with "zhive" or "zhivej". If their is no good reason for your choice of spelling, we can edit your user name if you like. Either way, I would rather you tackle the first part of my response with thoughtful dialogue than the latter part.

[Soldier of Macedon]

DZI, the apparent quote from your father doesn't exist as far as I'm aware, so let's avoid the assertion until it can actually be proven, which I don't believe it will be.

A word of advice, try looking at some sources not listed on the MPO website. Your understanding of the Pirin state within Bulgaria needs to be fine-tuned somewhat, the first step is to realise that the Bulgar state did nothing to assist the Macedonians in their cause for freedom, unless it resulted in their usurpation of Macedonia.

[Da Zhive IMRO]

Well bre, I'll address the irrelevant note on my name first, the little macedonian that i know is from a dialect that was used in the mountains of aegensko makedonia over a hundred years ago, because thats where both my grandparents families came from. obviously language evolve over time, and if it pleases you, go ahead and change the spelling, i would prefer "zhive" just drop me a line to let me know so Im still able to log in.
Moving to my second point, I would be more than happy to browse sources from places other than the MPO if you could kindly point me in the right direction. As far as the MPO census thing, i was present at the meeting where my stepmother(the president) adviosed us of the collaborative initiative with several organization, your selves included. I remember her specifically mentioning to a Vlach that was there that he could write in macedonian Vlach if it so pleased him because he is a Vlach from Macedonia. Its the same was im a macedonian from america. However she never specifically stated that we should write in Macedono Bulgarian or anything like that in place opf plain old macedonian. Seeing as I was living with my baba at the time the census came out I didnt fill one out and i dont know what she wrote, however, if i'm alive in 70 years when they release the census from 2010 i think i can say with confidence that andrea did not write macedono bulgarian on her form, and I dont know where your misguided claim came from.

On a different note, without starting a fight, I would like to mention an observance of mine. You guys seem very knowledgeable of the happenings of the MPO, and some of the insider things that go on with us. And thats not an admission or acceptance of bugaromani philandering, it is an assumption that you have either an MPO defector in your midst or a spy(ies) planted within our organization. This is based on things I've seen, as well as skimming posts on this sight and reading things wrote by your members about us that could be known in no other way. Like I said, these arent fighting words, nor is it a psychological offense. I actually like talking to you SOM, because in my short history on this sight, 90% of my post have been in response to yours and the intellectual workout does me good.
Your thoughts please

[Risto the Great]

Well bre, I'll address the irrelevant note on my name first, the little macedonian that i know is from a dialect that was used in the mountains of aegensko makedonia over a hundred years ago, because thats where both my grandparents families came from. obviously language evolve over time, and if it pleases you, go ahead and change the spelling, i would prefer "zhive" just drop me a line to let me know so Im still able to log in.
Moving to my second point, I would be more than happy to browse sources from places other than the MPO if you could kindly point me in the right direction. As far as the MPO census thing, i was present at the meeting where my stepmother(the president) adviosed us of the collaborative initiative with several organization, your selves included. I remember her specifically mentioning to a Vlach that was there that he could write in macedonian Vlach if it so pleased him because he is a Vlach from Macedonia. Its the same was im a macedonian from america. However she never specifically stated that we should write in Macedono Bulgarian or anything like that in place opf plain old macedonian. Seeing as I was living with my baba at the time the census came out I didnt fill one out and i dont know what she wrote, however, if i'm alive in 70 years when they release the census from 2010 i think i can say with confidence that andrea did not write macedono bulgarian on her form, and I dont know where your misguided claim came from.

I have edited the login name. Just sign in with the new name and same password. You don't need the CAPS on.

If you were 100% sure about the spelling, I would have left it like that. There are numerous dialects of Macedonian which is something to celebrate and further proof of how old our language is. You may have seen the terrific thread dedicated to a Kostur based Macedonian language of over 500 years ago which is pretty much the same as the modern literary Macedonian language. Quite remarkable I am sure you would agree.

http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3066

i was present at the meeting where my stepmother(the president) adviosed us of the collaborative initiative with several organization, your selves included.

Again, you seem to be of the mis-guided belief that we are the UMD or something similar. You are wrong. We have never collaborated with MPO.

Thank you for defending the stance of your step-mother. You may well be correct in relation to her personal opinion. Can I urge you to clarify why the UMD and the MPO parted ways in this regard then? The UMD had advised that the MPO stance was for its members to advise a Macedono-Bulgarian ethnic identity or something equally as stupid. If this was not the case, there would have been no need for a parting of ways between the two organisations. I suspect you will still dance around this issue because you are yet to deal with it adequately even though we have tried getting a meaningful response a few times. Perhaps you can clarify it with your step-mother and let us know.

Here is a (since deleted) statement from a UMD executive member about the failed MPO/UMD collaboration:

Tom

What risk? It was a great oportunity to gain. And we still gained.

The MPO membership would have signed as Bulgarian in the census. If UMD did not try to enlighten these people, that would have been the course. MPO agreed to promote the census and urge them to sign as Macedonian. So in that regard, we would have gained the MPO followers to sign up as Macedonian. Isn't that the mission?

Now, since this embarrassment for MPO, some of their members will be wondering why did MPO get kicked out.

It is easy to just say to hell with them.

So, do you think any MPO members gained a greater insight into the MPO and its agenda in this regard?

[Da Zhive IMRO]

Nobody left the MPO if thats what you mean Risto, however, I dont think to many people outside the central comittee even knew of the colaboration, even though we still tried to push the census thing independently aftyer our severed relationship with the other orgganizations. And to restate what I meant by "yourselves included" I was not again referring to you as the UMD, we did clarify that point. I was under the impression that 10 or more macxedonian groups were set to participate in the census thing the MTO included. Or are you guys notr a formal organization with a president, central comittee, and convention, like we are? Because i thought you guys were. As far as my stepmothers personal opinion, it is pretty much, in this case at least, the opinion of the MPO.she never once mentioned to write ethnic bulgarian, that would be stupid, right? I do know however of a central committee member from canada I believe, that was kicked out of the MPO last year for spreading his personal political on our letterhead that did not coincide with the MPO. It could be that he was talking pro-bulgarian, I dont know. But whatever he was doing it was far enough off of our platform that he was duly punished. This could be where you guys get your opinion of us. Just hypothesizing tho.
PS i would quote you in my responses for clarification purposes to directly answer individual points, I just dont know how