Macedonian Patriotic Organization

[Da Zhive IMRO]

I understand here too risto, however, by historical views i mean the roles of vancho, vlado, and imro, not the political. do we both not agree the treaty of bucharest was the beginning of the end? Or that ther only good thing tito ever did for us was give our name back, albeit in puppet form? If I am mistaken maybe i should leave for awhile, however, i dont believe tatko ever left the discusiion, and aside from you attacking his character, i can carry on with you opposing his other beliefs, you know what i mean
?

[Risto the Great]

DZI, I won't paint you as anything.
I will paint the MPO though. As recently as a few weeks ago, they were advising all of their members to proclaim their ethnicity as Bulgarian. Jump around and avoid it as much as you like, if you depart from this belief then you are welcome in my house any time. The leaders of the MPO are not welcome for this reason.

Macedonian-American suggests Macedonians living in America.
Macedono-Bulgarian suggest Macedonians who don't know what they are (or where they are for that matter).

Visheni has lost most of its patriots now with a whole bunch of foreigners living there now. It is fertile, green and has views of Kostur that people would kill for. And kill they did.

[Risto the Great]

This is the MP perspective, already included on this thread:

Лебамоф: МПО е американска организација. Станува со американски концепт на мислење. За МПО е нормално еден Али Ахмети да рече “Јас сум Македонец”. За МПО, Али Ахмети е Македонец. За МПО и јас сум Македонец, зашто припаѓам кон Македонија. Но, за МПО етнички, јас сум Бугарин, а Али Ахмети е Албанец. Сите заедно ние сме Македонци.

Translated as follows if you cannot read Macedonian:

Lebamof: MPO is an American organization. It has a U.S. concept of thinking. For the MPO it is normal for Ali Ahmeti to say "I am Macedonian". For the MPO, Ali Ahmeti is Macedonian. For the MPO I am also Macedonian, because we belong to Macedonia. But for the MPO (in terms of) ethnicity, I am Bulgarian, and Ali Ahmeti is Albanian. All together we are Macedonians.

This pretty much sums up the MPO for me. If you disagree with this, then the fight is between you and the MPO. Not with us.

I chose not to quote your father but you can find at least one of his statements earlier in this thread. It tends to support the above quote.

The treaty of Bucharest is one of many beginnings of the end. The attempted erosion of the Macedonian ethnic identity by the likes of the MPO is yet another.

Please don't feel compelled to defend the MPO. We invite them here for continued debate and I personally do not feel it is your job to represent their beliefs.

[Prolet]

Those are heavy words by Lebamov, i fully disagree with them.

Da Zivee VMRO, You need to fully reform MPO if you want them to look like a serious Macedonian Organization, i believe the people there are far too Americanized and some people there think its OK to be Macedonian and Bulgarian at the same time which it cant be. I think you will find that the people here are very tolerant, they will give you all the support but its very easy to loose it in a second.

You need to go back to ideologies and lots of advise, if you want to learn something and there is a difference to learning and being brainwashed you have come to the right place, but as most people have tried and failed in the past is to try and take away our identities whether its Bulgarian,Greek or Serbians. We are our own people, we are our own destiny sure we respect anybody else name and identity but nobody can force us to change ours i think thats the difference.

You need to stay on the right path, because its very easy to slip off and loose touch. You are not doing yourself,your family or your ancestors any favors by declaring yourself to be Bulgarian.

[Prolet]

5) Macedonian Orthodox Church

Risto, What about the Macedonian Torbeshi who are Muslim? How are they suppose to represent themselves?

[Risto the Great]

Prolet, there was significant discussion in relation to this on the Macedonian Cause thread. Ultimately, there is no need for the Torbeshi to feel excluded from being Macedonians. They, better than most, understand what they used to be and the reasons for their conversion.

[Risto the Great]

You also claim a Bulgarian ethnicity. Kosovars in Kosovo appear to have claimed an independent Kosovo. Albanians in Albania seem happy with the result. Do you find any parallels with the MPO stance?

where can you quote me as saying i claim bulgarian ethnicity? i have said in every post so far I am a macedonian and nothing else
Also, I am sorry for calling you UMD that was confusion on my part but when i first started reading these posts, before i registered, you guys seemed awful chummy.
Also, I am lost on your analogy of kosovo with my MPO stance, as i said I leave the fighting and bickering to the old timers BRAJKO, I have different feelings which coincide with those of my generation in the MPO

The MPO states they are Macedonians with a Bulgarian ethnicity. Often. Given this well known fact about the MPO, tell me why you cannot draw the parallels between the ethnic Albanians of Kosovo vis-à-vis Albania and the ethnic "Bulgarians" of Macedonia vis-à-vis Bulgaria. Whose bidding is the MPO doing? Obviously Bulgaria's.

[indigen]

Blast from the past in memory of Tasho

Tasho Alusheff
Newsgroups: alt.news.macedonia
From: mrekshi..aol.com (Tasho Alusheff)
Date: 21 Apr 2001 23:39:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Question to the Grkomans and Bugaromans

>From: sp...erols.com
>Excuse me, Tasho, but:
>1. Slvko is a nice guy

Wrong, he's as arogant as me and is an asshole

>2. You are possibly related

No fucking way, sweetmeat....he ain't from Banica, Ekshi-sou or Visheni, there are no Alushevski's on this planet BTW.

>3. Slavko is probably related to this other guy, too

Perhaps, but that ain't none of my concern.

>4. Slavko's mom is Bulgarian. He knows the difference between Macedonians and Bulgarians.

I don’t believe he knows his ass from a hole in the ground. I’ve discussed this with him at great length. You have a short memory. You were there, on that Buffalo server list, 3 years ago....May of ‘98 when he so graceously told me the difference between my kind and his(ski). Nobody can tell me anything about that knuckleheaded serbian stooge that I don’t already know.

>5. What has Slavko ever done to you?

see number 4......
Later, Toots...
Tasho

[NB: He is talking about Slavko Mangovski, the Editor of Makedonsko Sonce and a true Macedonian Patriot.]

--------

Newsgroups: alt.news.macedonia
From: "Dirty Harry"
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001

Subject: Re: Question to the Grkomans and Bugaromans
"Tasho Alusheff" <mrekshi...aol.com> wrote in message

news:[email protected]...

the difference between my kind and his(ski). Nobody can tell me anything about that knuckleheaded serbian stooge that I don't already know.

"STOOGE"? A BUGAROMAN STOOGE CALLING SOMEONE A SERBIAN STOOGE?

LOL.
------------

Newsgroups: alt.news.macedonia
From: "Dirty Harry"
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001

Subject: Re: Question to the Grkomans and Bugaromans
<sp...erols.com> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

such a pleasant and gentlemanly exchange you guys

I like Tasho, and I understand where he is coming from. He's just from a different era so he's polluted with the Bulgarian-boot-kissing Bugaroman lingo. He can't understand how offensive that is to people like me who see ourselves as Macedonians and how destructive such affinities have been to our cause. Otherwise, he is a good Macedonian.

-----------
Newsgroups: alt.news.macedonia
From: "Mango"
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001

Subject: Re: Question to the Grkomans and Bugaromans

> Where did you get this from?

I don't know where Harry gets it from but I get it from my maternal
grandfather, born in 1903 in a village near Bitola (Capari), emigrated to
Australia in 1937 (brought the rest of his family in 1951). A man born
under Ottoman rule, came to Australia with a Serbian surname as that's what
the Serbs tried to turn him into, spent many years raising money and working
with a group of others to build the first Macedonian Church in Wollongong
Australia. A man who never knew life under Tito but who was a proud
Macedonian throughout his life. A similar story can be told about my
paternal grandfather (born in Velusina) who came to Australia permanantly in
1938 (the rest of the family came in 1956, my father by way of Greece).
Both of these people never knew Tito but proclaimed themselves Macedonian
during a period when most recent immigrants pereferred to be labelled
Yugoslavs rather than Macedonians. I also have relatives bearing Greek
surnames who are proud Macedonians. These people grew up in a country that
tried to destroy the name of Macedonia (but who now curiously try to
monopolose it) but maintained their Macedonian identity and language. Maybe
if you had spent time actually talking to Macedonians then you would know
how they feel rather than trying to get your version of history from
Bulgarian text books.

Cheers
Mango
------------

Newsgroups: alt.news.macedonia
From: mrekshi...aol.com (Tasho Alusheff)
Date: 21 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: Question to the Grkomans and Bugaromans


Mango wrote:

and if this Mango is Slavko Mangovski, you, you mutha fucker, are one of the
factors that add to said division...Go fuck yourself you slimely serbian
bootlicking bitch!
-Alusheff (no fucking ski here, Pal)

[Phoenix]

That's quite damning material posted by 'indigen'...

It is without doubt poor form to speak ill of the dead but in this case the dead has spoken for himself...

I will still send my condolences to 'dzi' for the loss of his father and I will never question their father and son relationship but it seems that beyond their relationship there's very little else to defend...

[Soldier of Macedon]

my father passed after a long and painful disease and you guys still manage to bash him. i can see why he used to get pissed while sitting at his computer when i was a kid. All he ever wanted to do was unite all the macedonians whether from petrich, aegensko(like us) or yugoslav macedonia. however, you guys were unfortunately brainwashed under tito to the point where you denounce the mpo and their bugaromani leadership. while you yourselves are srbomani and everyone can see it but you. I am very fortunate that my stari babas and dedos came here during the end of the ottoman days. at least i can look at the situation through an unblemished lense bog da go prosti

DZI, may your father rest in peace.

Nobody here has remarked about his physical condition or poor health, so your anger in that regard is unwarranted. Your comment relating to Macedonians that don't subscribe to the Bulgar propaganda (that has routinely been spewed up) by the MPO as being 'srbomani' is misguided and quite frankly immature. There are a huge number of Macedonian members of this forum, show me how many of them are whatever '-mani'. Although your subsequent posts are less 'confronting', I would still like to ask you, how exactly are we 'srbomani' according to your first post?

The 'bugaromani' believe that Khan Asparuh, whose roots are somewhere near or beyond the steppes of central Asia, is a more relevant figure in our historical heritage than Alexander the Great, who is from Macedonia. Are you naive in that way also? I am not claiming any direct genetical link with figures from ancient or medieval times, so please refrain from deliberately misinterpreting my comments. I simply have integrity and the capacity to think with logic, and I am not prepared to share the history of the Macedonian people and identity with another ethnicity, just like no other self-respecting person would.

Does that make me a "brainwashed" Macedonian according to MPO doctrine? How about according to you?

I am glad to see that younger Macedonians like yourself are breaking the trend of some of your fathers and grandfathers who became subordinate to Bulgar propaganda. It is something positive coming from people that have ties to the MPO. What percentage of the Macedonian youth that have ties to the MPO are Macedonian as opposed to 'bugaromani'?

[Soldier of Macedon]

I was never exposed to bulgarian propaganda, nor was i told i was bulgarian. I grew up with the understanding i came from sheperd families in ekshisou and visheni

But your father spoke like a convinced 'bugaroman' on the internet, repeatedly. Was he in the habit of saying one thing to you and another thing to others? I don't mean to be intrusive, it's just hard to reconcile what you're saying.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I've merged this DZI's thread about the UMD with this one MPO, it is all relevant and I would prefer for the discussion to be kept in the one place.

[Soldier of Macedon]

........my own father is quoted on this very site as saying is a descendant iof the soldiers of alexander

Where DZI?

[Da Zhive IMRO]

Ive been gone, cuz I buried my father this morning, however, i would like to adress some of your comments in a thoughtful manner. First of all, the srbomani comment was an unwarranted jab borne strictly out of my emotional state of mind at the time of said comment. Secondly, I believe my father preached the same doctrine to me as he did on the computer, the difference being my generation, as I previously stated, has in no way indoctrinated. So his comments did not persuade me to look at myself as "macedono-bulgarian" or anything else beside macedonian. In Regard to SOM's question of how many of my generation in the MPO are macedonian Vs bugaromani- 100% of those I know are macedonian like me. We don't believe in the political BS of your and my fathers generation, as i assume you are in his generation. However, I have to assume I am one of maybe 3 my age who are active in Macedonian forums, functions or debates outside of MPO functions, which is not to take away from their dedication to our collective struggle

[Daskalot]

Ive been gone, cuz I buried my father this morning, however, i would like to adress some of your comments in a thoughtful manner. First of all, the srbomani comment was an unwarranted jab borne strictly out of my emotional state of mind at the time of said comment. Secondly, I believe my father preached the same doctrine to me as he did on the computer, the difference being my generation, as I previously stated, has in no way indoctrinated. So his comments did not persuade me to look at myself as "macedono-bulgarian" or anything else beside macedonian. In Regard to SOM's question of how many of my generation in the MPO are macedonian Vs bugaromani- 100% of those I know are macedonian like me. We don't believe in the political BS of your and my fathers generation, as i assume you are in his generation. However, I have to assume I am one of maybe 3 my age who are active in Macedonian forums, functions or debates outside of MPO functions, which is not to take away from their dedication to our collective struggle

Sorry to hear that, my condolences to you and your family.