Concerning the non-Greek origin and history of Asia Minor

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332

    #91
    A map of the area in question, by Ian Mladjov

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    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      #92



      1) It should not be overlooked that the descendants of the much-maligned Sanni / Tzani / Lazes are largely modern Pontians. It is worth seeing the national costumes and dances of the natives, and comparing them with the corresponding "Pontic" ones:


      2) There is a series of articles by Anthony Bryer titled "Some Notes on the Laz and Tzan", of which there seems to be only a Turkish translation available:


      "According to Georgian historians, Trabzon is a state where Georgians are dominant."

      3) From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabzon

      - Numerous villages inside and out of Trabzon of the Laz date back as early as the period of Queen Tamar's rule (Georgian: თამარი, also transliterated as T'amar or Thamar; c. 1160 – 18 January 1213) in the newly unified Kingdom of Georgia. During the Queen's rule, sizeable groups of immigrating Georgians moved to Trabzon where they continue to preserve their native tongue.

      - It is possible that the majority of the population of Trabzon and Rize (and other ancient Greek colonies in the Pontus region) — except up to the time of the Chepni Turk immigration waves — consisted of indigenous Caucasian tribes (the Colchians and the Laz) who had been partly Hellenized religiously and linguistically. Michael Meeker stresses the cultural resemblances (e.g. in village structure, house types, and pastoral techniques) between the Eastern Black Sea coast and the areas in the Caucasus proper.


      Last edited by Carlin; 04-23-2020, 05:25 PM.

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      • tchaiku
        Member
        • Nov 2016
        • 786

        #93
        Ο γάλλος φιλέλληνας Poqueville, ο οποίος επισκέφτηκε τα Ψαρά το 1799, περιγράφει τους ψαριανούς ως αλβανούς.

        The French philhellene Poqueville, who visited Psara in 1799, describes Psariotes as Albanians.

        Οι ψαριανοί εκτοπίστηκαν στη Χίο, από τον Guistiniani περίπου το 1475. Ο Thevet λέει, πως μετά από μια μακρά περίοδο ερήμωσης, τα Ψαρά έχουν ένα χωριό 700-800 σπιτιών (Insulaire, 162). Ο Lupazzolo συμπληρώνει, πως οι νέοι άποικοι είναι αλβανοί (Cf. B.S.A. xv. 227).
        Fishermen were deported to Chios by Guistiniani around 1475. Thevet says that after a long period of desolation, Psara has a village of 700-800 houses (Insulaire, 162). Lupazzolo adds that the new settlers are Albanians (Cf. B.S.A. xv. 227).


        Can't find the source of Poqueville.

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        • tchaiku
          Member
          • Nov 2016
          • 786

          #94
          However, following the Lausanne Exchange of Populations almost 200,000 Karamanlides Greeks were forced to repatriate to Greece, in spite of the fact that they only spoke Turkish.

          The Karamanlides were an exception throughout the Greek communities of Anatolia who all supported Greece during these dark years where nearly 400,000 ethnic Greeks were murdered. However, the Karamanlides community was largely in support of the Turks.

          Moreover, not only did the Karamanlidi Greeks side with the Turks in the 1920s and were in opposition of the Greek forces, some of them even demanded to establish a separate Orthodox church from the Greek Orthodox Church. Then in 1922, 72 orthodox spiritual leaders gathered in Kayseri with the support of the government in Ankara and announced the foundation of the Turkish Orthodox Church.

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          • Liberator of Makedonija
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2014
            • 1597

            #95
            Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
            However, following the Lausanne Exchange of Populations almost 200,000 Karamanlides Greeks were forced to repatriate to Greece, in spite of the fact that they only spoke Turkish.

            The Karamanlides were an exception throughout the Greek communities of Anatolia who all supported Greece during these dark years where nearly 400,000 ethnic Greeks were murdered. However, the Karamanlides community was largely in support of the Turks.

            Moreover, not only did the Karamanlidi Greeks side with the Turks in the 1920s and were in opposition of the Greek forces, some of them even demanded to establish a separate Orthodox church from the Greek Orthodox Church. Then in 1922, 72 orthodox spiritual leaders gathered in Kayseri with the support of the government in Ankara and announced the foundation of the Turkish Orthodox Church.
            https://eu.greekreporter.com/2016/06...e-to-anatolia/
            Very interesting
            I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

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            • Carlin
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 3332

              #96


              The excerpt is from Adjarian, H; "Étude sur la langue Laze"; Mémoires de la Société de linguistique de Paris, vol.X; Paris, 1899; page 145:

              "The Christian Lazes depend on the Greek patriarchate of Constantinople; they speak Greek and consider themselves Greek. However, we recognize them by their accent. They occupy the western part of Lazistan, from Platana in the east to Trebizonde, and in the south of Trebizonde to Gumusxana. The main cities where we meet them are Platana, Trebizonde and Gumusxana."
              Last edited by Carlin; 06-29-2020, 11:12 PM.

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              • Carlin
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2011
                • 3332

                #97
                THE CUMANS IN PAPHLAGONIA

                URL:


                Dimitri Korobeinikov

                The Turkish population of Asia Minor comprised two large ethnic groups, the Oghuz, who were a majority, and the Kıpçaks. The latter received lesser attention from modern scholars, yet their presence is still visible in the local Turkish dialects of Paphlagonia. It seems that sometime from 1242 the province suffered a migration of the Cuman population which came from the Balkans and the Crimea. Contrary to what one might have expected, the traces of the Kıpçak population that came to Asia Minor from Central Asia were extremely obscure. The new coming Kıpçaks served in the Byzantine army, simultaneously settled on the Seljuk territory across the Byzantine border, and later formed military detachments under the Çobanoğulları.

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                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332

                  #98
                  In the 12th century, Mihail Glykas writes about Vlachs (Ulachos) who clash in Asia Minor with the army of the apostate Theodore Mangaphas.

                  (Theodore's surname, Mangaphas, is not Greek, and represents perhaps a Hellenized form of the Turkish mankafa meaning fool or idiot)

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                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    #99
                    "In Lazistan/Pontus there developed small localities with a "synthesized" Turk-Greek culture, observing both Muslim and Christian practices at once. The local lore attributed this to pre-Muslim circumcision practices extant among them. (This likely was the cultural context from which Hemshins arose as well, supported by their close similarity to the Laz/Pontic populations anyway.)"


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