Does Hellenism exist today.??

[George S.]

I was amazed to find out that the modern greek has nothing in common with the hellenes.Hellenism actually ceased to exist with the take over of greece by the macedonians 2550 years ago.Today there no people called hellenes it's a make beleive fantasy.Real hellenism died out long time ago.People today are trying to recreate something that ceased long time ago.So trying to create today gives it a aense of fakery it doesn't exist.They used the terminology hellene after the greek state was created.

[Louis]

You don't have to visit Greece. You can find Hellenism in Australia too.

[George S.]

well they say melbourne is the second greece in the world there's something like million greeks that translates into votes,That's why they were able influence australia to adopt fyrom name for macedonia.Yes hellenism died out long time ago.

[damian]

well they say melbourne is the second greece in the world there's something like million greeks that translates into votes,That's why they were able influence australia to adopt fyrom name for macedonia.Yes hellenism died out long time ago.

hellenisms I think more has to do with culture and language acquisition as opposed to any ethnic thing...some grease try to draw a straight line between the hellenistic period started by alexander, byzantium and modern greece...thats why the ancient world is always an odd thing for modern hellenism grease because it was pagan and nonstate based...and see in all that mixture there is the inevitable confusion...

[makedonche]

hellenisms I think more has to do with culture and language acquisition as opposed to any ethnic thing...some grease try to draw a straight line between the hellenistic period started by alexander, byzantium and modern greece...thats why the ancient world is always an odd thing for modern hellenism grease because it was pagan and nonstate based...and see in all that mixture there is the inevitable confusion...

Damian
very true...except that Alexander continued the Macedonistic period, rather than starting the hellenistic one!

[George S.]

Makedonche well said that is the real hellenism ceased to exist & the greeks seem to remember the good old times,pericles themistocles etcNothing much in reality trying to twist it & say the macedonistic period & hellenistic was the same.Alexander never promoted hellenism that's why it died out.They tried to ressurrect it since 1832 it's not the same helenism it's pure & utter fakery at its best.Alexander promoted macedonism.If he succeedd longer we would actually be speaking macedonian not english or greek.In all glorious conquests alexander tried to glorify the macedonians not the hreeks he specifically gave a speech where he ruled the greeks out of the glory of his conquests.AS an example he did not use any greeks to fight the persians it was more the persians using greeks agains't alexander.

[Risto the Great]

You don't have to visit Greece. You can find Hellenism in Australia too.

I find I need a Hellenism at least once every couple of days.

[damian]

Damian
very true...except that Alexander continued the Macedonistic period, rather than starting the hellenistic one!

That is debatable..I dont think its a problem to say the ancient Macedonians were partially Hellenised...in the modern world we have the disease of homogeneity, unity etc even its just talk and violence...

[George S.]

The hellenistic period was stopped when alexander conquered the grks.Since then nothing has occurred.In 1832 they tried to resurrect it but aren't able to.

[damian]

The hellenistic period was stopped when alexander conquered the grks.Since then nothing has occurred.In 1832 they tried to resurrect it but aren't able to.

no that was the classical period..hellenistic period starts with alexander-romans..hellenistic means it was cultural doesnt mean all the peoples involved were greeks...there is an hellenistic jewish period etc...

[makedonche]

That is debatable..I dont think its a problem to say the ancient Macedonians were partially Hellenised...in the modern world we have the disease of homogeneity, unity etc even its just talk and violence...

Damian
I consider the southerners to have been partially Macedonianised as opposed to Macedonians being helenised, taking into consideration that the dominant force was the Macedonians, also considering the only remaining traits of the southerners that has survived is their capacity to lie and steal, it casts enormous shadows on anything they claim happened or anything they claim to be!

[Risto the Great]

I have no problem with the Hellenistic term. I see so many cultures that are Westernised today. There was a lingua franca at the time of Alexander and he helped spread it. It was not the Macedonian language he helped spread. It was a period ruled by Macedonians that enjoyed aspects of Hellenic cultures and then went on to embrace other cultures as it spread further East. It was far from Hellenic and I think people get caught up in semantics sometimes. In this instance the only thing worth noting in my mind was that is was not Hellenic and that it was instigated by Macedonians.

[George S.]

According to the Columbia Encyclopedia, Hellenism is "the culture, ideals, and pattern of life of ancient Greece in classical times. It usually means primarily the culture of ATHENS and the related cities in the Age of Pericles [495-429 BC]. The term is also applied to the ideals of later writers and thinkers who draw their inspiration from ancient Greece. Frequently it is contrasted with Hebraism - Hellenism then meaning pagan joy, freedom, and love of life as contrasted with the austere morality and monotheism of the Old Testament. The Hellenic period came to an end with the conquest of Alexander the Great in the 4th century BC. It was succeeded by the Hellenistic civilization." Page 930, Columbia Encyclopedia, Third Edition 1963, New York and London.

If you ask a Modern Greek today to identify his or her "nationality" they will say they are "Greek". If you ask them what is that in "Greek"? They will say "Ellinas" or "Ellinida". There is no word for "Greek" in the Greek vocabulary. If there is (Graekos) it is rarely used and unknown to most Greeks.

According to most modern Greeks today, "Greek" and "Ellines" are synonymous. In other words a "Hellene is a native of either ancient or modern Greece; a Greek".

If I am to understand this correctly "a Hellene is a person who shares the culture, ideals, and pattern of life of ancient Greece in classical times" and "who is a native of either ancient or modern Greece". In other words, again if I understand this correctly, any person of any ethnicity who is native of either ancient or modern Greece and who shares the culture, ideals and pattern of life of ancient Greece in classical times qualifies to be a Hellene.

Can a person be a Hellene and something else at the same time? According to Modern Greek standards, NO! One cannot be a Hellene and a Turk at the same time; according to some Greeks, why would they want to? "A Hellene is a superior being!" Also, according to some Greeks, "to be a Hellene one must be a descendant of the ancient Hellenes".

Obviously there are people today who call themselves "Hellenes" or more accurately, "Ellines". My question here is "who are these people and how did they become the Hellenes?"

Modern Greeks today consider themselves to be the inheritors of the ancient Greek and Byzantine civilizations and cultures. Historically, the self-perception of the Greeks and the definition of Greekness have varied, but with the emergence and consolidation of the nation-state, from the late 18th century, Greekness was redefined along the lines of what some people call romantic nationalism.

Romantic nationalism is the form of nationalism in which the state derives its political legitimacy as an organic consequence of the unity of those it governs. This includes, depending on the particular manner of practice, the language, race, culture, religion and customs of the "nation" in its primal sense of those who were "born" within its culture. This form of nationalism arose in reaction to dynastic or imperial hegemony, which assessed the legitimacy of the state from the "top down", emanating from a monarch or other authority, which justified its existence. Such downward-radiating power might ultimately derive from God.

Greece accepts all those who agree with this principle and rejects those who disagree.

So what exactly is this principle and what are the criteria for belonging to it? Or, what is this club called "Hellas" and how does one sign up to join it?

Is it ethnicity? Obviously not! Modern Greece is made up of Slav Speakers, Albanians, Vlachs, Turks, Christian Turks, Roma, etc.

Is it the Christian Orthodox Religion? Obviously not, even though most conservative Greeks like it to be! The so-called ancient Hellenes were Pagan.

So what exactly is a "Hellene" then in modern terms?

A Modern Hellene is a person who has rejected his or her real ethnicity, forsaken his or her real culture for the sake of belonging to a "CLUB".

A Modern Hellene or Modern Greek, since Hellene and Greek are synonymous, has abandoned reality and the truth for the sake of living an Idea.

When Greece was coming together as a country for the first time in the early 1800's, ethnically it could not hold itself together because of the various ethnicities living together and pulling in different directions. It is well known and every Greek should know that the majority of their national heroes of the "Greek uprising" against the Turks were not Greeks. They were Albanians (Arvanites), Vlachs and Slav Speakers (mostly Macedonians).

Even though there were many roads Greece could have taken during its national awakening it chose the road to "Hellenism". Unfortunately, appealing as it might have been to the Greek State it was destructive and devastating to the indigenous people of the region who are reeling from it to this day.

Greece wiped out half a dozen natural cultures and vibrant languages for the sake of resurrecting something that had died two thousand five hundred years ago so that it could re-live the old glory days and satisfy the imperial ambitions of the Great Powers of the day.

THE TRUTH

The truth is "there are no Hellenes living today", and as per the Columbia Encyclopedia definition, they died, came to an end with the conquest of Alexander the Great in the 4th century BC.

You Greeks can all pretend to be "Hellenes" but the only ones you're fooling are yourselves, which is fine by me. Unfortunately when you claim that the Macedonians, a real, vibrant living people don't exist, I take offense to that.

When you adamantly insist that Macedonia belongs to Greece, a group of people who fabricated their own identity, and not to the real Macedonians, I take offence to that.

When Macedonians are murdered, sent to prison, exiled from their homes and lands, forbidden to speak their mother tongue, not being recognized as people in their native lands, for the sake of propagating a Greek lie, I take offence to that.

When Macedonian names and toponyms are erased, Macedonian Bibles and tombstones eradicated, and peoples' identities stripped from them for the sake of creating "Hellenes" an identity that died many eons ago, I take offense to that too.

[damian]

According to the Columbia Encyclopedia, Hellenism is "the culture, ideals, and pattern of life of ancient Greece in classical times. It usually means primarily the culture of ATHENS and the related cities in the Age of Pericles [495-429 BC]. The term is also applied to the ideals of later writers and thinkers who draw their inspiration from ancient Greece. Frequently it is contrasted with Hebraism - Hellenism then meaning pagan joy, freedom, and love of life as contrasted with the austere morality and monotheism of the Old Testament. The Hellenic period came to an end with the conquest of Alexander the Great in the 4th century BC. It was succeeded by the Hellenistic civilization." Page 930, Columbia Encyclopedia, Third Edition 1963, New York and London.

If you ask a Modern Greek today to identify his or her "nationality" they will say they are "Greek". If you ask them what is that in "Greek"? They will say "Ellinas" or "Ellinida". There is no word for "Greek" in the Greek vocabulary. If there is (Graekos) it is rarely used and unknown to most Greeks.

According to most modern Greeks today, "Greek" and "Ellines" are synonymous. In other words a "Hellene is a native of either ancient or modern Greece; a Greek".

If I am to understand this correctly "a Hellene is a person who shares the culture, ideals, and pattern of life of ancient Greece in classical times" and "who is a native of either ancient or modern Greece". In other words, again if I understand this correctly, any person of any ethnicity who is native of either ancient or modern Greece and who shares the culture, ideals and pattern of life of ancient Greece in classical times qualifies to be a Hellene.

Can a person be a Hellene and something else at the same time? According to Modern Greek standards, NO! One cannot be a Hellene and a Turk at the same time; according to some Greeks, why would they want to? "A Hellene is a superior being!" Also, according to some Greeks, "to be a Hellene one must be a descendant of the ancient Hellenes".

Obviously there are people today who call themselves "Hellenes" or more accurately, "Ellines". My question here is "who are these people and how did they become the Hellenes?"

Modern Greeks today consider themselves to be the inheritors of the ancient Greek and Byzantine civilizations and cultures. Historically, the self-perception of the Greeks and the definition of Greekness have varied, but with the emergence and consolidation of the nation-state, from the late 18th century, Greekness was redefined along the lines of what some people call romantic nationalism.

Romantic nationalism is the form of nationalism in which the state derives its political legitimacy as an organic consequence of the unity of those it governs. This includes, depending on the particular manner of practice, the language, race, culture, religion and customs of the "nation" in its primal sense of those who were "born" within its culture. This form of nationalism arose in reaction to dynastic or imperial hegemony, which assessed the legitimacy of the state from the "top down", emanating from a monarch or other authority, which justified its existence. Such downward-radiating power might ultimately derive from God.

Greece accepts all those who agree with this principle and rejects those who disagree.

So what exactly is this principle and what are the criteria for belonging to it? Or, what is this club called "Hellas" and how does one sign up to join it?

Is it ethnicity? Obviously not! Modern Greece is made up of Slav Speakers, Albanians, Vlachs, Turks, Christian Turks, Roma, etc.

Is it the Christian Orthodox Religion? Obviously not, even though most conservative Greeks like it to be! The so-called ancient Hellenes were Pagan.

So what exactly is a "Hellene" then in modern terms?

A Modern Hellene is a person who has rejected his or her real ethnicity, forsaken his or her real culture for the sake of belonging to a "CLUB".

A Modern Hellene or Modern Greek, since Hellene and Greek are synonymous, has abandoned reality and the truth for the sake of living an Idea.

When Greece was coming together as a country for the first time in the early 1800's, ethnically it could not hold itself together because of the various ethnicities living together and pulling in different directions. It is well known and every Greek should know that the majority of their national heroes of the "Greek uprising" against the Turks were not Greeks. They were Albanians (Arvanites), Vlachs and Slav Speakers (mostly Macedonians).

Even though there were many roads Greece could have taken during its national awakening it chose the road to "Hellenism". Unfortunately, appealing as it might have been to the Greek State it was destructive and devastating to the indigenous people of the region who are reeling from it to this day.

Greece wiped out half a dozen natural cultures and vibrant languages for the sake of resurrecting something that had died two thousand five hundred years ago so that it could re-live the old glory days and satisfy the imperial ambitions of the Great Powers of the day.

THE TRUTH

The truth is "there are no Hellenes living today", and as per the Columbia Encyclopedia definition, they died, came to an end with the conquest of Alexander the Great in the 4th century BC.

You Greeks can all pretend to be "Hellenes" but the only ones you're fooling are yourselves, which is fine by me. Unfortunately when you claim that the Macedonians, a real, vibrant living people don't exist, I take offense to that.

When you adamantly insist that Macedonia belongs to Greece, a group of people who fabricated their own identity, and not to the real Macedonians, I take offence to that.

When Macedonians are murdered, sent to prison, exiled from their homes and lands, forbidden to speak their mother tongue, not being recognized as people in their native lands, for the sake of propagating a Greek lie, I take offence to that.

When Macedonian names and toponyms are erased, Macedonian Bibles and tombstones eradicated, and peoples' identities stripped from them for the sake of creating "Hellenes" an identity that died many eons ago, I take offense to that too.

Hellenistic george its a term meaning postclassical it doesnt mean Hellenism which is a modern reconstruction. Hellenistic would more properly mean classically influenced cultures and societies. The problem is most history that has been trasmitted is that of elites so its very selective. For example we can get tid bits from sources that say the ancient Macedonians spoke their own language but theyre leaders also spoke ancient Greek so thats what I mean crosspollination. And some people argue that the tribes in the area werent just ethnic groups but also different social classes but we dont have enough primary materials.

Its interesting to it was almost impossible to teach people in rural greece to learn modern greek(which is an academic construct like most formalized languages) as they spoke a rural quasi-greek vernacular.

[George S.]

But the modern greek likes to portray themselves as inheritors of hellenism & they think back more than 2500 years ago & think that they have a positive link when in fact they are just wannabes & think they are part of the ancients.