NATIONALISM AND THE MIDDLE AGES: The Myth of Creation of Slavic-Bulgarian Nation...

[Risto the Great]

Jankovska, if someone was born in todays Republic of Macedonia before its independence from Yugoslavia in the 199o's, what would their nationality be?

This was the penetrating question from the now departed Makedonia.
We could all play a game and predict the direction of the inquiry, but it is safe to say many Greeks have a distinct inability to distinguish between ethnic identity and national identity.

It is a boring discussion if people cannot distinguish between the two.

One can only be saddened with what other pearlers we will miss out on.

[Jankovska]

Look Makedonia, this is how it works- if Greek people can claim purity so can I and you can do fuck all about it, it's my right and I refuse to explain myself to anyone. You would never give me an explanation to how come my great grandad fought for that country before
your stupid country took 51% of Macedonia and how come Macedonians are mentioned everywhere way before that?
Your explanation is I am Bulgarian which is ignorant so I actually have no reason to debate that with you or anyone. My identity is not to be debated.

[makedonin]

Here is one honest Bulgar on the topic:

Bulgarian elite had to invent, elaborate and underpin a myth of common ancestry and made this pedigree putative for the sense of ethnic identification


Nevertheless, during the Stambolov’s government some different interpretations appeared about the Bulgarian “blood” and the qualities and temper that this “blood” had determined. Although still isolated and not turning into an elaborated and coherent discourse about the Bulgarian “ancestors” they marked crucial and fundamental rupture with the prevailing paradigm of the “pure Bulgarian blood” imagined as a “Slavic one” within the Bulgarian nineteenth century context.


Moreover, in that period some Bulgarian politicians and journalists tried to find an escape from the idea of Slavicdom. In this regard they evoked the origin of Asparuh's Bulgars and underlined it with its different versions – Tartar,56 Fin, or Turkic.57 This was often made with typical racial language that spoke about Bulgarian “talent”, “innate instinct”, and “gift” that were depicted as qualities inherited by “our ancestors” represented as Asparuh’s Bulgars. In this context it was confessed that “in our veins there is certain Tartar blood” and this “blood” was depicted as a determinant of the military qualities of the Bulgarians in comparision with the Serbs.58.

In fact, the other elements of Bulgarian descent coming from Old Bulgars were seen as something that situated contemporary Bulgarians higher than the “Pure Slavs” as were regarded Poles and Serbs.

HONEST BULGAR

[Jankovska]

When we went to concur the world you were jumping up and down trees in Minor Asia like monkeys now you have come here to tell us more about the world and democracy and stuff ... it's almost laughable.

[Delodephius]

I was born in Ex-Yugoslavia and in my record my ethnicity was written down as Slovak. Serbs had Serbian, Croats had Croatian, Macedonians had Macedonian, Slovenians had Slovenian, Albanians had Albanian, etc. The only people that had Yugoslav ethnicity were those whose parents were from different ethnicities in Yugoslavia, like father is Macedonian, mother is Slovenian, so the child was Yugoslavian, but not always. He/she could choose from all three.
I find it quite weird Greeks can't tell the difference between nationality and ethnicity. Technically we were all Yugoslavian nationals or citizens, but we were not Yugoslavian ethnically. Only those who were from mixed marriages or were patriotic.

[osiris]

intersting dont you think slovak that a so called oppressive dictatorial communist nation recognized ethnic minorities , but the cradle of democracy and mother of western civilization greece still cannot.

[Delodephius]

Da, it's a mystery.

[Daskalot]

Da, it's a mystery.

Lets ask the Greeks why it is so?
Why is Greece as a Western country so undemocratic when it comes to recognizing its minorities but a Communist country as former Yugoslavia was light years ahead???? Strange is it not?

toothpaste, please bring your bucket full of sunshine over here.....

[makedonin]

No mistery there. It is called control.

As long it is guaranteed that everybody will feel and see them self as "Greek" or in other "National-States" or what ever other "National Belonging" (i.e. Bulgarians are of same type), and make this "National Belonging" equal with Ethnicity, they will make sure that they maintain control over it's population i.e the Population maintains control over it self by trying to justify the Views that has been thought to know as Truth.

Recognizing Other Ethnicity inside of a National State is always seen as danger of separatism, as it was the case in Yugoslavia.

and that than again makes the leaders fear losing lands and equally money.

It is all about Control, Lands and Money.

This is no new Goal of the so called Leaders of countries.
It is only modern Strategy. Earlier in Human History it was done by Sword, now it is done with National i.e. Ethnic Agenda.

Even the Americans implement this Agenda as National State bind Pathriotism. The only difference is that they are to "obviously different" to be able to implement the "Nationa-Belonging" Agenda as Ethnic one.

pozdrav

[Daskalot]

No mistery there. It is called control.

As long it is guaranteed that everybody will feel and see them self as "Greek" or in other "National-States" or what ever other "National Belonging" (i.e. Bulgarians are of same type), and make this "National Belonging" equal with Ethnicity, they will make sure that they maintain control over it's population i.e the Population maintains control over it self by trying to justify the Views that has been thought to know as Truth.

Recognizing Other Ethnicity inside of a National State is always seen as danger of separatism, as it was the case in Yugoslavia.

and that than again makes the leaders fear losing lands and equally money.

It is all about Control, Lands and Money.

This is no new Goal of the so called Leaders of countries.
It is only modern Strategy. Earlier in Human History it was done by Sword, now it is done with National i.e. Ethnic Agenda.

Even the Americans implement this Agenda as National State bind Pathriotism. The only difference is that they are to "obviously different" to be able to implement the "Nationa-Belonging" Agenda as Ethnic one.

pozdrav

A very good and true observation how people are being controlled by their respective governments, Bravo Makedonin!

[Risto the Great]

Makedonin, I think you made an excellent number of observations.
If you sprinkled a statement in relation the misguided belief that they belong to a higher cultural strata then I feel it would be complete.

The motivation to be self-policing stems from this belief I think.

[makedonin]

thanx both of you.
The believe is build on top of the Human need of Groupation, and this is produced by fear. Fear comes of our own Mortality and the experience of the Mortality of the equals i.e. our fellowmen and this is almost innate.

This mind set for Groupations was just extended with different believes.

The "National Believe" is the newest one, and incorporates "National History", which it is not always that what it is thought in the schools. The "National Believe" and "National History" are idealization of Historical events, that most likely do not corespode truth.

And as Risto the Great said, the believe that some Nation belongs to the higher cultural strata is only petting the ego of the indoctrinated to get them even more stuck in to the National Myth and self policing them.

[Risto the Great]

Truthfully, the more you dwell on the issue of Nationalism, the more absurd it becomes. Macedonians have been denied for centuries, hence our desire to be counted. Greeks have the world believing their rants about "cradles of democracy" etc, they should be so confident now that they could really move forward and become a progressive nation. Instead, they present themselves as being from the dark ages.

[Daskalot]

thanx both of you.
The believe is build on top of the Human need of Groupation, and this is produced by fear. Fear comes of our own Mortality and the experience of the Mortality of the equals i.e. our fellowmen and this is almost innate.

This mind set for Groupations was just extended with different believes.

The "National Believe" is the newest one, and incorporates "National History", which it is not always that what it is thought in the schools. The "National Believe" and "National History" are idealization of Historical events, that most likely do not corespode truth.

And as Risto the Great said, the believe that some Nation belongs to the higher cultural strata is only petting the ego of the indoctrinated to get them even more stuck in to the National Myth and self policing them.

More words of wisdom, I hole heartedly agree with you. You understand the underlying factors that control most of the inhabitants of the world, you are enlightened, Bravo!!!

[makedonin]

you are enlightened

Nothing could be more far from the Truth Daskalot.

I as everybody else love belonging to a Group, specially the Macedonian one.

It is only that I see my self first as Human and try to treat other fellow Humans on this level.

I only fire up my "National Guns", when some indoctrinate fellowhuman shoots with "National Bullets" on me. Otherwise there is no need to be Nationalisitc.

Know your self and be free of that knoledge is the message.