Yes voltron your govt tried to lie & say everything in greece is homogenous that it's pure greeks.When you read what really happened is greece was on a desperate mission to rebuild greece not having the population it tried to alter the demographic nature.If someone speaks greek then by greek standards they are greek.This sort of artificial adaptation of foreign nationals was so widespread throughout greeceTHe hard evidence of cracks in the system is you had a number of albanian priministers.You had the fiasco of people in the navy speaking in albanian against the wishes of the greeks & other situations.Not to mention the agean area was resettled with trhe population echanges ,pontiacs etcSo back in 1913 &then 1920's you had forced assimilation & suppression of rights,denials of macedonian existence etc etc.
Your Opinion - What % is the Greek component of modern Greeks?
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"Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
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Originally posted by Voltron View PostAfter the Slavs, its the Vlachs then the Albanians. Like I said earlier,in order of significance and in regards to mainland Greece.Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!
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Surely the Venetians are worthy of mention.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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Great topic. I have a book by Nicholas Ostler called Empires of the Word which deals extensively with the rise and fall of the Greek language. He talks about how in many instances the language was perpetuated by non Greeks and states that Alexander the Great was one such example.
We are in the middle of moving at the moment, but, if I can find the book I will post some excerpts.Last edited by El Bre; 04-08-2011, 09:11 PM.
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Originally posted by VoltronKoine just standardised the language. Same thing with Macedonian or any other language. We have many dialects still in place. Romaika, Cypriot, Tsakonian, Calabrese, ect.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Cypriot dialect is also based on Koine because today`s Cypriots gone there after 16th century from central Anatolia. If you ask Greeks, they will say that Cyprus is 10.000 year old Greek territory but ofc this is not the truth. During the ~350 year old Latin, Venetian rule in all Aegean islands after first crusade, Greek orthodoxy was pretty much dead and non-existent in there. Especially Cyprus was an important base for catholic Knights of Templar since ~1200 AD.
After Ottoman Empire threw catholics out from aegean and mediterranean, Greek orthodoxy restored in islands. Then both Greeks and Turks gone to the Cyprus mostly from central Anatolia like Konya, Kayseri(Casseria?) after 16th century. Thats why Greek Cypriot dialect is based on Koine and unrelated to Doric.
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Originally posted by Onur View PostCypriot dialect is also based on Koine because today`s Cypriots gone there after 16th century from central Anatolia. If you ask Greeks, they will say that Cyprus is 10.000 year old Greek territory but ofc this is not the truth. During the ~350 year old Latin, Venetian rule in all Aegean islands after first crusade, Greek orthodoxy was pretty much dead and non-existent in there. Especially Cyprus was an important base for catholic Knights of Templar since ~1200 AD.
After Ottoman Empire threw catholics out from aegean and mediterranean, Greek orthodoxy restored in islands. Then both Greeks and Turks gone to the Cyprus mostly from central Anatolia like Konya, Kayseri(Casseria?) after 16th century. Thats why Greek Cypriot dialect is based on Koine and unrelated to Doric.
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostRomaika, Cypriot, Cappadocian, Griko, Pontic, etc are all overwhelmingly derived from Koine, there is no doubt about it. Even Tsakonian is questionably 'Doric' on the level that has been suggested.
Let me know if you disagree with anything you have seen so far regarding the Slavic impact on our region or more specifically to Greece.
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Originally posted by Risto the Great View PostSurely the Venetians are worthy of mention.
There is mention of Franks though on the Western Pelopponese. I have read that the Greeks and Slavs of the Peloponnese were united in a common enemy. The Franks.
This resulted in the full assimilation of the Slav remnants to the native Greek population of those areas. Nothing was left of them to show for. Its like they disappeared from the map.
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Originally posted by Voltron View PostThis resulted in the full assimilation of the Slav remnants to the native Greek population of those areas. Nothing was left of them to show for. Its like they disappeared from the map.
The Slavic place names in the Peloponnese were changed to greek ones in roughly the last 100 years.
Take a look at this from the archives compiled by SOM back in 2008.
This can be a work in progress which I will update throughout the weeks and days, it was initiated by my self and largely brought close to completion by our member VMRO. I will also include the Albanian section of the topic eventually. Any Greeks or Albanians who who visit this forum and wish to dispute the Slavic nature of
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Originally posted by Commander Bond View PostGet real mate.
The Slavic place names in the Peloponnese were changed to greek ones in roughly the last 100 years.
Take a look at this from the archives compiled by SOM back in 2008.
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...hread.php?t=37
Araxova is one example off the top of my head. We didnt change them all.
Here is Max Vasmer. http://www.kroraina.com/knigi/en/mv/index.htmlLast edited by Voltron; 04-11-2011, 08:22 AM.
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Originally posted by Voltron View PostThat does not change the fact that whatever Slavs that remained in Greece were fully absorbed by the Greek population. Aside from toponyms, there is nothing to suggest they were there.
But that does not prevents them for claiming exactly such continuity and are using the same claim to dispute the Macedonians the right to call them Macedonians.
How does that make them look like? Your guess?Last edited by makedonin; 04-11-2011, 08:52 AM.To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.
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Do you consider evolution as a part of continuity ? I do.
So far there is evidence to show that even after the Slavic incursion into Greece, Greeks were still in numbers and still were existing. It does not show that there was any type of mass exterminiation. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that shows peacefull co-existance between the two. Which at one point merged into the Greek population leaving only their placenames. How is that not continuity ? Because there is a Slav variable in the mix ? Even if the total Slav population was over a quarter of Greece's total, I dont think that is enough to debunk continuity.
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Originally posted by Voltron View PostDo you consider evolution as a part of continuity ? I do.
Second, the official Greek line is that those "Slavs" came out of somewhere, thus they were not genuine of the region.
That begs the question, how did they evolved from "Slavs" into "Greeks"?
By assimilation? Cultural adoption?
Also the question would be, how does that makes them eligible to claim continuity of any kind, where of Greeks generally accept that they where other people and had another culture before they adopted the so called Greek culture?
Originally posted by Voltron View PostSo far there is evidence to show that even after the Slavic incursion into Greece, Greeks were still in numbers and still were existing. It does not show that there was any type of mass exterminiation.
On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that shows peacefull co-existance between the two. Which at one point merged into the Greek population leaving only their placenames.
Why it should be acknowledged and accepted for the Greek but not for the Macedonian claim?
Originally posted by Voltron View PostHow is that not continuity ? Because there is a Slav variable in the mix ? Even if the total Slav population was over a quarter of Greece's total, I dont think that is enough to debunk continuity.
They ought to have been something else before they decided to become something different!
Than they claim that what they actually adopted they were from time begin!
How is that continuity (uninterruptedness) for the Greekness of the "Slavs" in Greece?
Same goes for all those Vlachs, Albanians, Macedonians, Turks etc. that claim to be Greeks from time begin.Last edited by makedonin; 04-11-2011, 09:23 AM.To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.
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