The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece

[Carlin]

And... who wrote this? And why is there an unknown name among well-known names? You shouldn't worry about your posts being scrutinized. Nobody here (except for me) knows any of these guys. Actually if you had written 20 random names they wouldn't have noticed it.

I'm a little confused on whether you're partly Greek or not, if you can read or speak Greek, I wonder if any of these names means something to you.


=

Please follow up with user Antioxos from Hellas here:

http://archive.worldhistoria.com/history-of-the-romanians-and-vlachs-2711310_topic12810_page2.html

Also, check with these bloggers:

https://www.facebook.com/177919176140868/posts/first-cemetery-of-athens-greece-it-is-the-official-cemetery-of-the-city-of-athen/442643606335089/

"Here a lot of personalities with AROMANIAN / VLACH origins have the tombs.

Among the most famous personalities, we mention:

Odysseas Androutsos, hero of Greek War of Independence;
George Averoff, philanthropist, businessman;
Odysseas Elytis, poet;
Theodoros Kolokotronis, general, politician;
Giorgos Seferis, poet;
Michael Tositsas is one of the Great Benefactors of Greece;
Dimitris Mitropanos, singer"

[Dove]

1) The term Koutsovlachs that is used by scholars since the past century and which very often has a humiliating character, is related to "Kioutsouk Vlachia" as the Turks called Aetolia-Akarnania (Little Vlachia). This entire region was an area with majority Vlach-speakers until the years of Cosmas of Aetolia (Epigram of Evgeniou Etolou).

Is the term "Kioutsouk" therefore a Turkish word? If not, to which language does it belong?

[Amphipolis]

"Here a lot of personalities with AROMANIAN / VLACH origins have the tombs.

Among the most famous personalities, we mention:

Odysseas Androutsos, hero of Greek War of Independence;
George Averoff, philanthropist, businessman;
Odysseas Elytis, poet;
Theodoros Kolokotronis, general, politician;
Giorgos Seferis, poet;
Michael Tositsas is one of the Great Benefactors of Greece;
Dimitris Mitropanos, singer"

Only Averof and Tositsas were Vlachs or of Vlach origin.

[Carlin]

Is the term "Kioutsouk" therefore a Turkish word? If not, to which language does it belong?

The term is likely derived from Turkish: Kioutsouk or Ciuchuk = small. At times, Thessaly and south Macedonia were considered Great Vlachia, whereas ‘small’ Vlachia was Aetolia-Akarnania and adjacent regions. (Pindus was called Upper Vlachia.)




The following article was published in Greek in the journal Thessalonikeon Polis, May 2003. The English version reflects updated information. Helen Abadzi ([email protected]) was born in Thessaloniki, Greece in 1951. Her ancestors were from eastern Thrace and Sarakatsanoi of Serres (therefore Hellenized Vlach-speakers). She is an educational psychologist who works at the World Bank and has studied 16 languages. Her hobby is history, and she has published extensively on the interactions between Greece and India through the centuries as well as on Greek communities in British India.

Quote by Helen Abadzi:
"However, historically the members of this ‘minority’ have acted as the backbone of Hellenism: fighters against Ottoman occupation, like Rigas Feraios, Giorgakis Olympios, and possibly Theodoros Kolokotronis; leaders of leftist resistance against the Germans (EAM), such as Alexandros Svolos and Andreas Tzimas. Distinguished writers like Kostas Krystallis and Christos Zalokostas were Vlach, as were contemporary composers like Apostolos Kaldaras, Kostas Virvos, Babis Bakalis, and Mitropanos. Many became rich Balkan merchants during the 18th and 19th centuries and many Greek national benefactors were Vlachs, such as Nikolaos Stournaris, Georgios Arsakis, Michael and Georgios Tositsas, Georgios Sinas. Simon Sinas financed the construction of the Academy of Athens, while Georgios Averoff contributed to the first Olympic games."

URL:

http://www.farsarotul.org/nl26_1.htm

Antonis Katsantonis, Arvanitovlach (Farsherot) from Agrafa

[Carlin]

This person (who is half Greek) discovered that his maternal grandfather spoke Albanian. He should stop the research right there - he might be displeased what he finds.


On that note, how many people actually do not know what languages their grandparents spoke?

[Carlin]

Demetrias is now known as Volos.

It was founded in 'Hellenistic' times, named after Greek goddess Demetra.

Goddess Demetra had a lot in common with the Slavic god Volos/Veles.

So, it is possible that the Slavs of Magnesia "translated" the name into their own respective god.

[tchaiku]

1) Case Sotiris Bletsas for Minority Languages - Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=74&v=e7tP0XpX9ns&feature=emb_title

The case of Sotiris Bletsas that has been chased by the Greek Law for declaring that his mother language and his origin was Vlach

In 1995, at an Aromanian festival in Greece, he distributed some EBLUL material about minority languages in Greece. In 2001, on an initiative of the MP for Edessa Evgenios Haïtidis, he was charged with "dissemination of false information" (contrary to article 191 of the Greek Penal Code) who reportedly was supported by the leadership of the Panhellenic Federation of Cultural Associations of Vlachs. The case drew protest from the Greek Helsinki Monitor and from abroad. He was first found guilty and sentenced to fifteen months in jail, suspended for three years, and fined 500,000 drachmas, however, he successfully appealed the decision and was subsequently found not guilty on 18 October 2001.

2) Emperor Nicephorus (802-811) settled colonists from various parts of the empire - "Kapheroi, Thrakesians, Armenians, and others from different places and cities" - in the Peloponnese.

Possibly these "Kapheroi" may have been Syrian Christian ex-subjects of the Caliphate who had become refugees or evacuees.

URLs:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=-sqiDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA306&dq=Kapheroi+Sparta&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjD4cqwqtnnAhXPc98KHSxWAVcQ6AEIMTAB#v=onepage&q=Kapheroi%20Sparta&f=false

https://books.google.ca/books?id=Y2EbAAAAYAAJ&q=Kafir+Peloponnese&dq=Kafir+Peloponnese&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiGzM31qdnnAhWMmuAKHfmoCPo4ChDoAQgnMAA

3) The Venetian Senate authorized the chatelain of Methoni to hire 300 mercenaries. Methoni is an interesting example of how Venetian colonists were settled, and their subsequent way of life. In 1293 the Senate ordered the walls of Methoni and Korone to be rebuilt and the towns populated by 24 families sent from Venice. Inside the burgus, or fortified town, of Methoni were commercial warehouses.

URL:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=kjC...0cyprus&f=true

Who were Thrakesians?

[Amphipolis]

Who were Thrakesians?

This is what makes everybody lose his sleep nowadays, so here's the answer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracesian_Theme

[Carlin]

- Constantine VII Porphyrogennetos (913-920/944-959), in his text On themes, informs us that the area’s inhabitants were called Thrakesians because they came from Thrace; He also adds that they were «laborious» and «manual workers».

- The failed mutiny against Basil I (867-886) the Macedonian, co-emperor to Michael III (842-867), in 866, was led by the Thrakesian general Symbatios and the earl of Opsikion George Peganes. (Symbatios or Symbatius is the Hellenized form of the Armenian name Smbat. It was particularly frequent in Byzantine times.)

URLs:

http://www.ehw.gr/asiaminor/Forms/fLemmaBody.aspx?lemmaid=8714

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbatios

[Carlin]

Dimitri Abeleanu from Avdella, Aegean Macedonia - "Neamul Aromanesc din Macedonia", Bucharest 1916.

[Carlin]

Ethnic categorization in the slave market of Crete

Let's review the ethnic categorization in the medieval documents of Venetian slave market notarial deeds. Venetian notaries recorded hundreds of slave sales in which slaves are categorized by their respective Venetian notary. Of course, we are talking about ethnic terms as the Venetian notaries understood them at the time.

Charles Verlinden has written extensively about the slave trade in the eastern Mediterranean and his notarial deeds in the late Middle Ages (14th-15th centuries): Charles Verlinden (1962), La Crète, débouché et plaque tournante de la traite des esclaves aux XIVe et XVe siècles, στο Amintore Fanfani (επ.), Studi in onore di Amintore Fanfani III: Medioevo (Milano A. Giuffrè 1962), pp. 593-669.

The slave market of Crete (Candia) was the most important slave market in the eastern Mediterranean.

The ethnic composition of the slaves of the Genoese slave trade in the Black Sea included the Tatars (by far the most common ethnicity of the slaves there), Russians, Alans, Cumans, Circassians, etc. These typical ethnicities of the Black Sea / Genoese slave trade constituted about 28% of the slaves trafficked into the Venetian slave market in Crete, which, according to Verlinden, is an indication of the high commercial activity of the Genoese.



I won't go into too much detail, but here is a sample list of slaves in Crete per Manoli Bresciano: Bulgarians, Serbs, Vlachs, Arvanites, etc.

[sydney]

Interesting how the same names appear across all ethnicities. A lack of imagination on someone’s behalf, or a complete lack of interest/care considering slaves are stripped of all dignity. And Marica is Greek apparently.

[Carlin]

As mentioned above, we are talking about ethnic terms here as the Venetian notaries understood them at the time. The most problematic one (again) proves to be the ethnic term "Greek". The Albanian slaves from Epirus were called Greeks:

"In the Venetian archies of archivio notarile there are reports of Albanian slaves in Crete noted by Manoli Bresciano from 1359-1388. The majority of Albanian slaves from Epirus (de partibus Despotate) were called "Greeks"."

So, when we see in lists "Greeks" alongside "Albanians", "Vlachs" or others, we can't conclude anything with a significant degree of confidence as those Greeks might have been Albanian-speaking and/or Vlach-speaking (bilingual) Christians, etc.

URL:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_slaves

Also, according to the analysis in this book, the communities of Bulgarians in Crete as well as Cyprus were "relatively large":


URL:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=tjPEtxSOuYgC&pg=PA508&dq=nikola+petrov+varna+slaves+crete&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVov-UncDoAhWSdN8KHUx-CD4Q6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=nikola%20petrov%20varna%20slaves%20crete&f=false

In conclusion, the above proves the existence of Albanian, Vlach, and Slavonic communities on Crete.

[Amphipolis]

The most problematic one (again) proves to be the ethnic term "Greek".

Really, I thought the most problematic once again is something else (something that is missing). I don't see why you bother to post evidence against your points.

[sydney]

We all know “it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave“ from Macedonia.