The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece

[Carlin]

Link:

http://www.freeinquiry.gr/article.php?id=2477

"Χαρακτηριστικό είναι το δημοσίευμα τού αμερικάνου εθελοντή Bolse στην εφημερίδα τής Φιλαδέλφειας «Democratic Press» (φύλλο 13.12.1826), για το Ναύπλιο τού 1826: «Τα καφενεία τής πόλης κατάμεστα από στρατιώτες, που παίζουν μπιλιάρδο ή κουβεντιάζουν. Ούτε στην αρχαία Βαβυλώνα δεν ακούγονταν τόσες γλώσσες όσες στο σημερινό Ναύπλιο.» (Κ. Σιμόπουλου:Πώς είδαν οι ξένοι την Ελλάδα τού ΄21, έκδ. «Στάχυ», 1999)."

GoogleTranslation:

Feature is the publication of the American volunteer Bolse of the Philadelphia newspaper «Democratic Press» (sheet 13.12.1826) for Nafplion 1826:

"The city cafes crowded by soldiers, playing billiards or chatting. Even ancient Babylon did not hear so many languages as in Nafplion today."

(Κ. Σιμόπουλου:Πώς είδαν οι ξένοι την Ελλάδα τού ΄21, έκδ. «Στάχυ», 1999).

Nafplio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafplio

[Carlin]

B. Randolph (1687) says that the Christian population of Euboea was in his day almost entirely Albanian.

Source: "Albanian Settlements in the Aegean Islands", F. W. Hasluck -- The Annual of the British School at Athens -- Vol. 15 (1908/1909), pp. 223-228. Published by: British School at Athens.

[Carlin]

Undoubtedly Latin is the name Missolonghi, the capital of Aetolia-Acarnania regional unit.

According to predominant historical opinion, its name came from the combination of two Italian words, mezzo and laghi which means "in the middle of lakes" or messo and laghi (Messolaghi) which means "a place surrounded by lakes". Until 1700, Missolonghi was under Venetian domination. Its inhabitants were mostly fishermen.

According to S. Liakos, the name Missolonghi is Vlach - which resulted from the moashe-lunca=old swamp, or mass-luncaei=marsh station.


Sources:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missolonghi
- Page 69 of the book by S. Liakos, The origins of the Armonians, or Makedonovlachs

[Carlin]

The Latins in the Levant
By William Miller

https://books.google.ca/books?id=3KUPAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA4&dq=arkadia+slavs+taygetos&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjWx-2CuoDPAhUCJh4KHSdHA9cQ6AEIJDAB#v=onepage&q=arkadia%20slavs%20taygetos&f=false

Page 4: "... they were confined to the mountain fastness of Arkadia and Taygetos (called in the Chronicles "the mountain of the Slavs") ..."

[vicsinad]

Perhaps this was posted before, but this is from a magazine in 1891 called The Quarterly Review, and it quotes something written earlier by Gregovorius:

' We can pardon the modern Greeks their decided rejection of the view that their ancestors blended with the Slavs ; their proud claim, or idle wish, to be still regarded as legitimate descendants from the highest nobility of the human race, is comprehensible. Yet ultimately they will have to console themselves with the fate of all historical races, which have been " crossed " and thus been preserved by renewal. The mixture with Slavic blood, whether strong or weak, as little made the Greeks Sarmatians, as the German infusion made Italians or French Germans, or as Wend elements made the Germans Wends.'

Pg. 202

[tchaiku]

Geographical name changes in Greece in 1909. 30% of villages had to change their toponyms due to their non Greek origin.

Geographical name change in Greece is the Greek state's systematic replacement of non-Greek geographical and topographic names within Greece with Greek names as part of a policy and ideology of Hellenization.[1][2] The main objective of the initiative has been to assimilate or hide geographical or topographical names that were deemed foreign and divisive against Greek unity or considered to be "bad Greek".[2] The names that were considered foreign were usually of Turkish, Albanian, and Slavic origin.[2] Most of the name changes occurred in the ethnically heterogeneous northern Greece and the Arvanite settlements in central Greece. Place names of Greek origin were also renamed after names in Classical Greece. [2]

In 1909, the existence of large numbers of non Greek place names were a nuisance to the government. In 1909 the government-appointed commission on toponyms report that every one village in three in Greece (30% of the total) should have its name changed (of the 5,069 Greek villages, 1,500 were considered as “speaking a barbaric language”.[2]

According to ongoing research being carried out at the Institute of Neohellenic Research in Athens, between 1913 and 1996, the names of 4,413 settlements were legally changed in Greece. In each case, the renamings were recorded in the official Government Gazette. The regional breakdown in renamings is: Macedonia: 1,805 renamings; Peloponnese: 827 renamings; Central Greece: 519 renamings; Thessaly: 487 renamings; Epirus: 454 renamings; Thrace: 98 renamings; Crete: 97 renamings; Aegean Islands: 79 renamings; Ionian Islands: 47 renamings.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_name_changes_in_Greece

[Amphipolis]

Geographical name changes in Greece in 1909. 30% of villages had to change their toponyms due to their non Greek origin.

Not only because of that, but for a variety of reasons. For instance, some names of minor villages were in embarrassing slang. I imagine the first official who had to publicly mention Vromiaris (Mucky, Stinker) or visit it, or heard about it, would give an order for the name to change.

Wikipedia tries to organize full lists of renamed towns and villages (per district) (visit the link of post#366 and the related links of the article) but has several mistakes. For instance, Florina was never renamed from Lerin to Florina. The name of the city during Ottoman Empire was Florina or Filorina.



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[tchaiku]

Not only because of that, but for a variety of reasons. For instance, some names of minor villages were in embarrassing slang. I imagine the first official who had to publicly mention Vromiaris (Mucky, Stinker) or visit it, or heard about it, would give an order for the name to change.

Wikipedia tries to organize full lists of renamed towns and villages (per district) (visit the link of post#366 and the related links of the article) but has several mistakes. For instance, Florina was never renamed from Lerin to Florina. The name of the city during Ottoman Empire was Florina or Filorina.



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Very interesting.
How much proportion of modern Greece population do you think it's foreign?

[Amphipolis]

Very interesting.
How much proportion of modern Greece population do you think it's foreign?

We know that between 1991 and 2001 (census years) the percentage of foreigners jumped from <2% to 7% and probably up to 9% before the 2008 crisis. By 2001 in Athens 17% of the population were foreigners! (one can... see that if he visits Athens).

The 2011 data have been published but I couldn't find out the respective numbers (I believe they're similar). I'll try again later.

[vicsinad]

Wikipedia tries to organize full lists of renamed towns and villages (per district) (visit the link of post#366 and the related links of the article) but has several mistakes. For instance, Florina was never renamed from Lerin to Florina. The name of the city during Ottoman Empire was Florina or Filorina.



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That's not quite accurate. Before the Turks came, it was generally referred to as Khlerin, as that's how it was founded and settled. During the Ottoman Empire, both Lerin and Florina were used interchangeably, and Florina became more predominate as Greek propaganda spread north.

[Dejan]

I'm under the impression that the word lerini means medallions. Can anyone confirm?

[Amphipolis]

That's not quite accurate. Before the Turks came, it was generally referred to as Khlerin, as that's how it was founded and settled. During the Ottoman Empire, both Lerin and Florina were used interchangeably, and Florina became more predominate as Greek propaganda spread north.

I'm under the impression that the word lerini means medallions. Can anyone confirm?

No, it wasn't Khlerin but Chlerinon and no it was not interchangeable during Ottoman Empire (as far as I've searched) and (in this case) there was no Turkish version of the Greek name (just Florina). So, Greece didn't have to change the name of the city.

Medallion? No, the main info and theories about the name can be found here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florina#Name

[vicsinad]

No, it wasn't Khlerin but Chlerinon and no it was not interchangeable during Ottoman Empire (as far as I've searched) and (in this case) there was no Turkish version of the Greek name (just Florina). So, Greece didn't have to change the name of the city.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florina#Name

You cite Wikipedia as if it were a bible. Firstly, Kh- and Ch- are the same sound. Secondly, Lerin is in the Ch-lerin-on you wrote. The Macedonian version drops the ch- and -on (not all, I've heard some Macedonians still refer to it as Chlerin). The modern Greek version changes the ch- sound to a f- as well as changes the "e" to an "o".

Third, there are plenty of sources showing both a) Khlerin and b) that both Lerin and Florina were used interchangeably. I'll use one source from 1879, called the Journal of the Anthropological Institute Volume 8, that satisfies both (stating that the original was Khlerin and that at that time (1879) it was referred to as both Lerin and Florina).

Page 73:

https://books.google.com/books?id=TqIEAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=khlerin+macedonia&source=bl&ots=lgH-9kP2oH&sig=y5RBFjLcBXux_FmyVvsypZflLWc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLmtfU1czQAhVK1WMKHbFdDT0Q6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=khlerin%20macedonia&f=false

Then again, this is not an unsourced Wikipedia snippet, so you will probably refute its relevance or authority.

[Dejan]

The greeks would have simply used the names left behind by the turks e.g. Manastir for Bitola. They had no history in the area prior

[Amphipolis]

Wikipedia is not the Bible. That’s why I mentioned a mistake in it, a couple of posts before. The district of Florina was under the Bulgarian Empire in the 1200s, but Florina did not exist yet, and its predecessor (the fortress of Chlerinon) first appears in 1300s under the Serbian Empire a little before taken by the Turks. I gave the link because it aggregates all the relevant info and theories about the name, etymology and history of the city.

I couldn’t confirm what you say: a) the name Chlerin/Khlerin, b) the name Lerin as an official (alternate) Ottoman name. I don’t think a city can have two official names.

For most cities of Macedonia, the Turks had a slight Turkish version of the Greek or Slavic name [Kastoria- Kesriye, Kozani- Kozana, Katerini- Katerin, Grevena- Grebene, Vodena-Vodina, Thessaloniki-Selanik, Veria- Karaferye, Polygyros-Poly(e)ros, Serres- Serez], but not in in Florina, Kilkis, Drama or Kavala where the Turkish names were identical.



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