The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332



    Ideological state apparatuses, from school to the media and from family to sports, educate the masses in particular indirect a, that a joint-and-largely mysterious substance unites us into one homogenous group with blood ties, culture, common origin and linguistic purity, defining the nation. thus resulting nationalism, not only with historical extreme violence and rabid intolerance but also the daily life of the nation, with the quiet days of simple patriot and homemaker. A Patriotism is the daily nationalism who admire oneself, cultivating the fantasy that is sufficiently inoffensive, h CoE differ substantially from the right-wing version. Despite this, it is impossible to draw the line between nationalism and patriotism (even if "left" anti-imperialist sign), because the difference is quantitative. In other words, the transition from patriotism to nationalism is "smoothly" without rupture, just there so the appropriate circumstances. The sequel, which connects nationalism with patriotism is the general condition for the flourishing of nationalism, not only dominant, but in subordinate social classes, ie the general requirement to obtain nationalism mass basis. authors of the present book does not share the patriotic sentiments of any nation and argue that patriotism is a euphemistic term for nationalism, which manufactures Member installing a generalized form of delusion about the nature of the nation. This refusal chose to express the desecration the national flag as a symbol, rather than burning it, but in a way that seems more radical: if the direct solution of the fetishistic character and the delegitimization as a symbol, to which the crowd. Under no direct democratic country is not clearly illegal to despise a national symbol in accordance with the Charter of Civil Rights guaranteed freedom of religion and freedom of speech and opinion at all. The critical attitude towards the country and its symbols are part of that freedom. These are 'in theory'. The book shows, among other things, whether and how they apply in practice. has expressed the view that nations can exist without nationalist sentiments of the citizens. However, such reasoning implies that nations produce, under certain circumstances, and only under such nationalism. In reality though, the arrow of causality is the reverse: first, nationalism produces nations, not nations and nationalism. Then, one supports the other. therefore challenging the violence of nationalism should challenge and the nation as a reality, and the nation as a concept, which means that you need to question the holy and sacred roots of "our" , the supposedly noble origin of the Greeks, the supposed historical continuity of Hellenism and the golden pages of heroism, cultural or biological homogeneity of the Greek nation, and all components of the national ideology. The work is debunking the stories as "destroyer of myths" (in the words of Eric Hobsbawm ). 's non-nationalist historians have already shown sufficiently how loose are the positions of the historical myth of the "Greek nation", as, moreover, all nations. Both sufficiently so impressed with the distance, kept between the fanaticism of "race" on the origins, the historical continuity and cultural or racial purity on the one hand and the work of historical non-nationalists on the other. The book, except the Greek, and refers to the American nation and its flag, not because the writers are inspired by anti-American sentiments, but because it is a fact well known to readers. Also, the American flag (as indeed Greek), is highly charged with significance ascribed to the Patriots: ie involves a heavy emotional content. (Excerpts from the Introduction).




















    Families, schools, churches
    are the slaughterhouses of our children.
    Universities are the kitchens.
    Adults, weddings and businesses,
    devour the product.

    Ronald D. Laing , The Politics of the Family

    This short book consists of an essay by Elijah Ioakimoglou (NTU alumni and the Institute of Business Administration of the University of Grenoble) around the concept of the nation and nationalism, and a THE Soti Triantafillou (Ph.D. American history and the history of cities) around the flag as a patriotic, "hallowed" symbol. This is an intervention against the nationalist delirium, which has occupied the majority not only in Greece but in the whole world, so the "Temptation of obscurantism."

    In " For flag and the nation "analyzes briefly the history and evolution of collective emotions and fantasies, such as nationalism, as well as sacred and holy, which they use for their stabilization. That is why the existence of the national flag as remnants of militarism-aggressive or defensive-aggressive nature-and as a result of traditional schooling and family education, and for "national pride", a provincial conception of history, the national "disease" and racial superiority. Why patriotism, respect for the "national" past and remain emblems of turbulence properties in the lives and events? Because even the overwhelming wave of globalization, rather than cause wilting nationalist sentiments, he managed to sharpen? How is it that words and concepts relating to the homeland, origin, race and religion to freeze in time? Although simaiolatria the patridolatria the antiquity, there constitute new phenomena acquire richer meaning in this period, we are experiencing. In the book exposed some ideas about this phenomenon: collective fraud nationalism, bigotry and flags. P. 58-59: The World's nation denies the passage of time. It is an imaginary landscape in which this coincides with the past and the future. Leonidas still keeps guard at Thermopylae and reinforce the garrison of the modern Greeks, but mentally and emotionally symparistantai who were not born yet, but will do so as self-evident if needed. The imagined community of the nation operates beyond time, whatever its own priorities. So kollosiaio produced kitsch, which wants the Parthenon located next to Hagia Sophia ...
    Last edited by Carlin; 11-24-2012, 11:16 AM.

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    • Mistracona
      Banned
      • Oct 2012
      • 87

      It is well-attested that the eastern Mani was settled by migrations of Slavic people, the Meligs among them, as a result of the Slavic migration into the southern peninsula during the 6th century. In western Mani there are still many village names of Slavic origin: Stoupa, Platsa, Selinitsa (changed to Ayios Nikolaos), Tseria, and many of Latin origin, Cambos, Kalives and so on. In the eastern Mani and along the eastern coast of Greece generally, there are fewer of these names because the military power of Constantinople was stronger and more capable of defence. Of course, the citizens of western Mani today are among the most patriotic Greeks and they played a leading role in the war of Independence.

      Fallemyer is correct that the majority of the inhabitants of the peninsula were of Albanian and other linguistic groupings during the Ottoman empire and before. The error that Fallemyer and other make is that they anachronistically call this area "Greece" as if it were a nation state. Since the establishment of Constantinople as the second capital of the Roman Empire in the East, the centre of "Hellenism," of the Greek-speaking people, had shifted to the Bosporus and there it remained to a great extant (for over a thousand years) even under the Ottoman period when the Greeks of the Phanar district, descendants of ancient communities played various influential roles (as other foreigners did) in the running of the Ottoman Empire.

      The "Greek" peninsula had been left undefended for protracted periods by Constantinople out of necessity. There was, however, always, a waxing and waning minority of Greeks in that peninsula. The Ionian Islands, Corfu, Cephalonia, Zakynthos, ithaca, etc were never under the control of the Turks but were part of the Venetian and later the British empire. On those islands, where there was continuous military protection and authority, the Greek speakers were always a majority.

      The modern Greek state was founded on the southernmost Balkan peninsula which was a centre of the ancient Greek world because that is where a significant number of Greek-speakers lived outside the Ottoman capital. They were the foundation of the new state. In it's founding, the Greek-speakers, Albanian, Slavic, Vlach and other linguistic groups were eventually assimilated into the unified Greek sate that exists today. The former Slavs of the Western Mani and the other parts of Greece, the Albanians, the Italians, Arabs and others now are the Greeks of the modern state. This is the general pattern of all nation states. If a Macedonian whose father came from Bitola but who was born in New York, Toronto or Melbourne can be an American a Canadian or an Australian (and feel passionately like one), someone whose great-great grandfather (or father) spoke only Albanian can today identify himself, and feel completely, Greek. The children of Iraqis, Afghanis, Pakistanis, Chinese and other who have migrated to Greece will be the "pure-blooded Greeks" of tomorrow.

      Other linguistic groups are assimilated into the dominant culture in various ways. The Greek State eventually assimilated the various non-Greek linguistic groups. The Greek state used the population transfer from Turkey to create a dominant Greek-speaking population in Greek Macedonia. The Greek state was founded and expanded most of its territory through war. In that, it, too, is a "Typical" nation state.

      All modern states, everyone without exception, is founded on national myths. A people's "myth" is a religious belief. It is the most powerful of all collective bonds, one that people willingly kill and die for. That is the true "blood" connection of a people.

      Comment

      • Mistracona
        Banned
        • Oct 2012
        • 87

        Carlin posts (10-29-2012):

        Inhabitants of Greece through the eyes of various foreign visitors and travelers.

        "The once glorious Athens is so desolate that it seems incredible that it was once glorious. I, for one, did not see anywhere a more terrible place. Wilderness, swamps...." »DAramon, French ambassador.

        "The population of Samos is Turkish." Ruy Gonzales de Clavijo, envoy of the king of Castile, Henry III, the court of Tamerlane.

        "Eleusis is now a poor village with 1,200 inhabitants, mostly Albanians." - John Fulleylove MClymont JA, 1902.

        "The Albanians from Arcadia are three times more numerous than the Turks." » (The present state of the Morea called Peloponesus, Bernard Randolph, an English traveler, London, 1686).

        "Kos is inhabited by Turks." (Pierre Belon, a French physician and botanist, 1546.)

        "It was almost uninhabited, Mykonos." Thevenot (1655).

        *******
        This leaves us with a puzzle: How did these places become Greek speaking? Whatever methods the Greeks used were successful because today these places are Greek-speaking and fully and indivisibly integrated into the modern Greek State.

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        • Mistracona
          Banned
          • Oct 2012
          • 87

          For over a thousand years the centre of the Greek world was in Constantinople and the Roman Empire in the east. The Southern Balkan peninsula, barren and unproductive compared to the "Byzantine" breadbasket and population centre of Asia Minor, had been abandoned to the migration of foreign tribes and the collapse of local economies. The "Byzantine" historian Choniatis wrote that starvation was so prevalent in 9th century Athens that "the dying pitied the living." It was in this unlikely landscape that the modern Greek State was founded in the 19th century and it survived and prospered through endless wars and tribulations.

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          • momce
            Banned
            • Oct 2012
            • 426

            The country is mostly rent-seeking scam by phanariot-masons and the Byzantine church hierarchy with the Great Powers as protectors.

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            • momce
              Banned
              • Oct 2012
              • 426

              Originally posted by Makedonia View Post
              The Greek government acknowledges that there are people living in Greece, from all over the world.

              What it does not recognise is the minority status of these peoples.
              Those people are not immigrants. Typical of greece they lie about everything to suit their interests.

              Comment

              • momce
                Banned
                • Oct 2012
                • 426

                Originally posted by Areianos View Post
                Well we modern Greeks did not write history and Peloponesos was populated mainly by Dorians that migrated from Macedonia to Peloponesos. They were Greek speakers and founders of Linear B.

                Besides when the royal houses were waging war amongst each other in southern Greece, Macedonian royalty invited the war refugees from Corinth, Argolis & Sparta to settle in Macedonia as it had vast land (according to Thucydides).

                Perhaps it was these war refugees from Corinth, Argolis and Sparta that sent Macedonia to the stratosphere under the reign of Philip.
                Is there any evidence that the Dorians were really Greeks?

                Comment

                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332




                  Ioannis Kolettis (Greek: Ιωάννης Κωλέττης) was a Greek politician who played a significant role in Greek affairs from the Greek War of Independence through the early years of the Greek Kingdom, including as Minister to France and serving twice as Prime Minister. Kolettis was born in Syrrako, Epirus and played a leading role in the political life of the Greek state in the 1830s and 1840s. Kolettis was of Vlach origin and studied medicine in Pisa, Italy and was influenced by the Carbonari movement and started planning his return to Epirus in order to participate in Greece's independence struggles.

                  Ioannis Kolettis stated the following in the Greek parliament:

                  «Για ποιούς έλληνες συζητάμε κύριοι; Η Ελλάδα φοράει τσαρούχια βλάχικα και φέσια αρβανίτικα».

                  "Gentlemen, what Hellenes are we talking about? All Hellas is wearing Vlach tsarouhia and Albanian fezzes."


                  This raises a question: Since there were no Hellenes (Greeks), how did the revolution of 1821 prevail? It prevailed thanks to the British, who wanted a state of their own in the Mediterranean (and not to fall under Russian influence and control). They took advantage of the uprising of the people of Greece and helped them, seeing the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.

                  Comment

                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    1) History of the Greek Revolution: And of the Wars and Campaigns ... - Volume 1, By Thomas Gordon.

                    "From the chronicles of those dark and gloomy ages, we can extract but little information regarding the country to which our attention is more immediately directed. We only know that proper Greece was repeatedly and cruelly wasted by Goths, Saracens, and Bulgarians, that her cities were mostly ruined, great part of the population exterminated, and that to fill up the void, the emperors planted there, at various periods, colonies of MARDAITES and SCLAVONIANS."

                    2) Urquhart, "Spirit of the East", London, 1830, str. 116:

                    "Iako Vonitsa bese glaven stab, tamu ne postoese niedno drugo voeno telo osven ona na kapetan Dziogas, lider na VLASITE, edno naselenie koe ucestvuvase vo Revolucijata so najmnogu deset iljadi mazi vo razlicni periodi. Dziogas imase sobrano naednas do dve iljadi vojnici."

                    The content you are trying to access is no longer available. It has been removed due to the retirement of Flash by Adobe inc. and all major browsers.


                    Vonitsa is a town in the northwestern part of Aetolia-Acarnania:


                    3) Benjamin of Tudela describes the Vlachs of Boeotia sweeping down "from the mountains to despoil and ravage the land of Greece".

                    - Curta 2005, p. 357.
                    - The Itinerary of Benjamin of Tudela, p. 21.

                    Boeotia


                    (Modern Boeotian Greeks are entirely of Vlach and Albanian ancestry.)
                    Last edited by Carlin; 12-15-2012, 11:01 AM.

                    Comment

                    • Carlin
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 3332

                      Please make comparisons accordingly and carefully. This lecture can be used as a great example of how a/any "national identity" is constructed.

                      A Nation? Peasants, Language, and French Identity

                      France Since 1871 (HIST 276)

                      The problematic question of when people in France began to consider themselves part of a French nation, with a specifically French national identity, has often been explained in terms of the modernizing progress of the French language at the expense of regional dialects. In fact, the development of French identity in rural France can be seen to have taken place alongside a continued tradition of local cultural practices, particularly in the form of patois. French identity must be understood in terms of the relationship between the official discourse of the metropolitan center and the unique practices of the country's regions, rather than in terms of the unambiguous triumph of the former over the latter.

                      00:00 - Chapter 1. The Birth of National Identity and Agents of Modernization
                      06:44 - Chapter 2. Regional Languages of France
                      15:20 - Chapter 3. Modernization of Transportation: Roads, Railways and Identity-Formation
                      25:42 - Chapter 4. Schoolteachers and Schoolhouses: Education, the State, and Identity
                      38:59 - Chapter 5. French Schools and Regional Identity Today

                      4. A Nation? Peasants, Language, and French Identity - YouTube

                      Comment

                      • Bill77
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 4545

                        Any resemblance to Pericles, Demostenisa and Socrates ?



                        The latest modern Greek, which the Australian/Greeks are getting exited about.

                        Good luck to the kid, seems like a nice kid.
                        but to his followers, that might follow for the sake that he is Grik and overlook the fact he represents Australia and produced by Australia, can wake up to reality in more ways than one.
                        Last edited by Bill77; 05-30-2013, 07:19 PM.
                        http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                        Comment

                        • George S.
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 10116

                          where there is a will there is a way.They manage to still keep the greek identity,what identity of lies & deceit.They are only fooling themselves.
                          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                          GOTSE DELCEV

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                          • lavce pelagonski
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2009
                            • 1993

                            He doesnt look Greek to me more like a middle eastern
                            Стравот на Атина од овој Македонец одел до таму што го нарекле „Страшниот Чакаларов“ „гркоубиец“ и „крвожеден комитаџија“.

                            „Ако знам дека тука тече една капка грчка крв, јас сега би ја отсекол целата рака и би ја фрлил в море.“ Васил Чакаларов

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                            • George S.
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 10116

                              that's right they don't even look greek.
                              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                              GOTSE DELCEV

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