Exposing Bulgarian Myths and Lies

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  • tchaiku
    Member
    • Nov 2016
    • 786

    Did you saw the post from Niko?
    Fields of Wheat, Hills of Blood by Anastasia Karakasidou, page 83 History of the Balkans by Barbara Jelavich

    Comment

    • maco2envy
      Member
      • Jan 2015
      • 288

      Yes, Niko pinpointed the true location of the photo, although we still don't have solid evidence that the 'one nation, one king, one kingdom' sign is fake. This is being interpreted by the Bulgarians as Macedonians being pro-unification with Bulgaria (see those wikipedia articles I posted)

      One of those two photos aren't real (or even both). In the end, I don't think it really matter whether the sign is real or fake, but the most important thing is that the photo was taken in the Bulgarian capital and not Macedonia, as Niko pointed out.

      Edit: Yeah I think Niko is correct, It seems that the photo without the sign has nothing with higher resolution on the internet which indicates it's most likely fake. Regardless, the Bulgarians are putting their sick twist on it.
      Last edited by maco2envy; 06-03-2018, 02:55 AM.

      Comment

      • Liberator of Makedonija
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2014
        • 1597

        Originally posted by maco2envy View Post
        Okay back to this picture:



        And looking at:



        It's pretty obvious that the location of the photo is in Sophia, Bulgaria, or more precisely here:


        Is it possible for someone with a background in digital image forensics to do some analysis on:

        to see whether the sign is cropped, the above image is the one wikipedia uses.

        For example as an amature, I ran an ELA program and got this:

        Now given that the banner with united macedonia is a flat surface, we have the fact: "Regardless of the actual color of the surface, all flat surfaces should have about the same coloring under ELA" (Source: Fotoforenics). This is obviously not the case with that sign in question.

        Also we need to update this wikipedia articles that make incorrect reference to the image:



        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...slav_Macedonia


        So what are these findings suggesting?
        I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

        Comment

        • maco2envy
          Member
          • Jan 2015
          • 288

          Nothing really apart from the location of the photo which was already discussed. The sign is likely to be real

          Comment

          • maco2envy
            Member
            • Jan 2015
            • 288

            Actually Niko's finding indicate the following academic source is incorrect and maybe some of its accompanying references:

            When German troops advanced into Vardar (Yugoslav) Macedonia in April 1941, the Macedonians greeted the victors with great enthusiasm. Crowds in Skopie, the provincial capital, displayed a banner which, paraphrasing the German slogan, hailed the unification of Macedonia and Bulgaria: “One people, one Tsar, one kingdom.” [1] The citizens gave an even more tumultuous welcome to the Bulgarian troops that entered Macedonia on April 19, 1941. [2] The warm reception accorded the Bulgarian soldiers was in large part the result of Macedonian resentment at three decades of Serbian dominance. “Administrative brutality, Serbian chauvinism, political corruption, and economic exploitation were more flagrant in Macedonia than in any other part of Yugoslavia.”
            Page 123 of Bulgaria during the Second World War by Marshall Lee Miller. This is the source that was referenced in the wikipedia articles
            Edit: url for the book: http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/mmb/mmb_2.htm#11_2

            Comment

            • Carlin
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 3332

              Comment

              • Liberator of Makedonija
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2014
                • 1597

                VMRO document depicting the Bulgarian flag, real or fake?

                I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                Comment

                • Bill77
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 4545

                  Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                  VMRO document depicting the Bulgarian flag, real or fake?

                  How is that the Bulgarian flag? Because it has horizontal tricolors?

                  This has been discussed before. Being of non-colour document, Have a look at the shades and work out what is wrong with it being the Bulgarian flag.


                  But more importantly, a more relevant and serious issue..... what's your opinion on the name change agreement?
                  You have not posted once (well not in recent times) in the "Name Change Agreed to be Greece and Macedonia" thread.
                  Last edited by Bill77; 06-17-2018, 04:31 AM.
                  http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                  Comment

                  • Liberator of Makedonija
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 1597

                    Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
                    How is that the Bulgarian flag? Because it has horizontal tricolors?

                    This has been discussed before. Being of non-colour document, Have a look at the shades and work out what is wrong with it being the Bulgarian flag.


                    But more importantly, a more relevant and serious issue..... what's your opinion on the name change agreement?
                    You have not posted once (well not in recent times) in the "Name Change Agreed to be Greece and Macedonia" thread.

                    If it is not the Bulgarian flag, which flag is it?

                    Also that isn't relevant to this thread so will not answer here but can't handle that thread anymore, it's too stressful.
                    I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                    Comment

                    • Bill77
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 4545

                      Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                      If it is not the Bulgarian flag, which flag is it?

                      Also that isn't relevant to this thread so will not answer here but can't handle that thread anymore, it's too stressful.
                      Obviously, it was a VMRO flag. The question is, what colors were those horizontal tricolors.
                      Being a non-colored image...... all you can work on is tones. In a black and white or monochrome image, white, or yellow would look the same. Therefore, the top horizontal portion of this suggested Bulgarian flag is inconclusive. But what is more conclusive (to me anyway), is the bottom horizontal portion of the flag in that document. It is very dark, and very distinctive to the center portion. In a black and white image, Green and Red (as in the Bulgarian flag), would not have tones that far apart. The bottom horizontal portion looks extremely dark, therefore its more likely than not to be "Black". And black represents "Smrt" as in the motto "Sloboda ili Smrt" which would make more sense in it being black.

                      I hope i made sense.

                      Also, i didn't expect you to answer my second question in this thread, i was just curious as to why i can't find your opinion with this naming saga in the appropriate thread.
                      Last edited by Bill77; 06-17-2018, 06:14 AM.
                      http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                      Comment

                      • Liberator of Makedonija
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2014
                        • 1597

                        Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
                        Obviously, it was a VMRO flag. The question is, what colors were those horizontal tricolors.
                        Being a non-colored image...... all you can work on is tones. In a black and white or monochrome image, white, or yellow would look the same. Therefore, the top horizontal portion of this suggested Bulgarian flag is inconclusive. But what is more conclusive (to me anyway), is the bottom horizontal portion of the flag in that document. It is very dark, and very distinctive to the center portion. In a black and white image, Green and Red (as in the Bulgarian flag), would not have tones that far apart. The bottom horizontal portion looks extremely dark, therefore its more likely than not to be "Black". And black represents "Smrt" as in the motto "Sloboda ili Smrt" which would make more sense in it being black.

                        I hope i made sense.

                        Also, i didn't expect you to answer my second question in this thread, i was just curious as to why i can't find your opinion with this naming saga in the appropriate thread.

                        Interesting viewpoint, the only thing that doesn't convince me is that I have never seen a VMRO flag/banner that is tricolour in nature and so it makes it hard for me to believe this isn't the flag of another country, whether that be Bulgaria or even Russia. I do agree that the bottom line appears too dark to be red which would mean that it cannot be the Bulgarian flag. Would love to know what the flag is meant to be, see if we can dig up some more.

                        I hear about the name-change every day and I don't think there's anything I can say in that thread that hasn't already been said, I'm just as aggrovated as everyone one.
                        I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                        Comment

                        • Carlin
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3332

                          The following comes from a Bulgarian book "Factors of the Bulgarian Revival 1600-1830" written by Hristo Gandev.

                          According to the testimony of Peter Bogdan, who visited the city of Tarnovo in 1640, the citizens spoke as much Greek as they did Bulgarian. Significant is Bogdan's surprise and explanation in this case. He says:

                          "The Bulgarians preserve this Greek tongue in Bulgaria, and Greece is far from Tarnovo. I believe that since this city was a royal (tsarist) town, this tongue is preserved as more urban."

                          From the old Metropolitan convent of Tarnovo (18th century) it can be seen that the city and the surrounding population have been conducting their own divorces, inheritances, transfers, merchant deals and gifts before the metropolitan court in the Greek language.

                          In other towns such as Pazardzhik, Hristo Gandev states that the people were affected by the Greek civil morals, the Greek tongue and Greek cultural consciousness. The Bulgarians supported the local bishopric.

                          In general, the name "Bulgarian"/"Bulgarians" was heard quite rarely throughout the country, and in the public sphere it meant very little.

                          Comment

                          • Liberator of Makedonija
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 1597

                            Bulgarians love to point out all the 19th century writers that considered Macedonian to be a dialect of Bulgarian, don't think they'd like this:

                            ...the fact that it was not until 1822 that Vuk Karadzic convinced the the eminent Slavist Jozef Dubrovsky that Bulgarian was not a dialect of Serbian...

                            -Victor Friedman
                            I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                            Comment

                            • Liberator of Makedonija
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2014
                              • 1597

                              As concerns the language of Mr. Jordan, anyone can see that it is so different from our written and spoken language, so that to a person reading it for the first time it will appear not only incomprehensible but completely different.......May the residents of Skopje forgive us, along with those speak a similar language; since they do not understand our language nor can they speak it.


                              Quoted from #55 of Carigradski Vestnik, dated 6 October 1851. Written by the editor as an attack on the literary works of Jordan Hadzi Konstantinov-Dzinot.
                              I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                              Comment

                              • Liberator of Makedonija
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2014
                                • 1597

                                I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                                Comment

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