Exposing Bulgarian Myths and Lies

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332

    Quote from "Description of the World" of John, archbishop of Soldania (Sultaniye in Persia) from 1404 AD



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    • vicsinad
      Senior Member
      • May 2011
      • 2337

      Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
      In 1905, Mary Edith Durham claimed in her book, "The Burden of the Balkans" (pp. 77-79), to "have met people who believe in a special race which they call Macedonian" and who told her their language is not Bulgarian saying herself "the dialect... is neither Serbian or Bulgarian".
      I did an analysis of her work and about 3 other dozen works from 1900-1925 written by Western authors. Basically, the overwhelming consensus of these Western authors is that the Macedonians were neither Serbs, Bulgars nor Greeks, but just Macedonians...and more importantly, those that called themselves one or the other mostly only did so due to propaganda. These are things we Macedonians know, but I poured over these early 20th century books to examine the truth about what Westerners said about Macedonians and not what the Bulgarian/Greek propagandists claimed they said in isolation or out of context.

      Comment

      • Karposh
        Member
        • Aug 2015
        • 863

        Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
        Родина Македонија Политичка партија - НАТАША КОТЛАР, ТОМЧЕ ШИРКОВ И ВЛАДИМИР ТРАЈКОВСКИ:
        РОДИНСКИ РАЗГОВОРИ! 21:00 ЧАСОТ, ПЕТОК, 27 НОЕМВРИ 2020 ГОД, ВО ЖИВО НА НАШАТА ФЕЈСБУК СТРАНАТЕМА:ЗА И ОКОЛУ ПРЕДАВСТВАТА НА МУРТИНСКИОТ ТРГОВЕЦ З.ЗАЕВ И ОБИ...


        Highly recommend watching Tomche Shirkov from roughly 5:00 to 14:20.
        That was really interesting Carlin. Thanks for sharing. I watched close to an hour of it late last night and I really enjoyed it. I'm about to watch the rest of it tonight and I recommend others watch it too as it shines a light on a number of very interesting facts about the modern Bulgarians which, I imagine, they'd rather not speak of. Who knew that there are areas in north-eastern Bulgaria, especially the Dobruja region where there are still compact communities who are descendants of the proto-Bulgars and still speak the old Turko-Tatar language which they brought with them from Asia. That same Turko-Tatar language was in use well into the 16th Century in Bulgaria and known simply as Bulgarian by all who spoke it. And they have the nerve to suggest the Macedonian language is in fact a dialect of Bulgarian today. The point was also stressed that the fact of the matter is, the Russians had a significant role to play in constructing the Bulgarian national identity around 200 or so years ago as it helped to serve a Russian agenda in the Balkans.

        What I found especially interesting was the point made by Natasha with regard to the Ohrid Archbishopric before it was abolished by the Turks. Apparently, when the Ohrid Archbishopric had jurisdiction over the Montenegrin Orthodox Church, the Montenegrins referred to themselves as "Macedonians". This shows us that the Ohrid Archbishopric was more Macedonian in character than we probably realise or tend to give it credit for. Often there's a Bulgarian cloud hanging over it but I think that's got more to do with Bulgarian propaganda rather than reality.

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        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          Originally posted by Karposh View Post
          That was really interesting Carlin. Thanks for sharing. I watched close to an hour of it late last night and I really enjoyed it. I'm about to watch the rest of it tonight and I recommend others watch it too as it shines a light on a number of very interesting facts about the modern Bulgarians which, I imagine, they'd rather not speak of. Who knew that there are areas in north-eastern Bulgaria, especially the Dobruja region where there are still compact communities who are descendants of the proto-Bulgars and still speak the old Turko-Tatar language which they brought with them from Asia. That same Turko-Tatar language was in use well into the 16th Century in Bulgaria and known simply as Bulgarian by all who spoke it. And they have the nerve to suggest the Macedonian language is in fact a dialect of Bulgarian today. The point was also stressed that the fact of the matter is, the Russians had a significant role to play in constructing the Bulgarian national identity around 200 or so years ago as it helped to serve a Russian agenda in the Balkans.

          What I found especially interesting was the point made by Natasha with regard to the Ohrid Archbishopric before it was abolished by the Turks. Apparently, when the Ohrid Archbishopric had jurisdiction over the Montenegrin Orthodox Church, the Montenegrins referred to themselves as "Macedonians". This shows us that the Ohrid Archbishopric was more Macedonian in character than we probably realise or tend to give it credit for. Often there's a Bulgarian cloud hanging over it but I think that's got more to do with Bulgarian propaganda rather than reality.
          No prob. Glad you enjoyed it.

          Here is something else from https://twitter.com/UZI9mmmm/status/1337572644363747331




          URL:


          Contemporary evidence: 16 August 1903 US newspaper The San Francisco Call reports that Bulgarian Premier Petroff regards uprising [Ilinden] in Macedonia as purely a Macedonian affair & nothing to do with Bulgaria. Petroff happy at Ottoman Turks brutally suppressing it.





          URL:


          7 April 1930 - US workingman's newspaper. The Daily Worker alleges that Britain has ordered Bulgaria to come down very hard on ethnic Macedonians in Bulgaria.
          Last edited by Carlin; 12-19-2020, 09:38 AM.

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          • Carlin
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2011
            • 3332

            1941 British colonial press in Australia - front page headline:

            BRITAIN WARNS BULGARIA ON NAZI AFFINITY

            The Telegraph (Brisbane), Wednesday 19 February 1941



            Last edited by Carlin; 12-19-2020, 09:40 AM.

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            • Carlin
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 3332

              4 December 1975 -The Times (UK)



              URL:

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              • Carlin
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2011
                • 3332



                URL:


                The Bulgarian Nikola Kuchukov published in 1900, in Bulgaria, autobiographical notes on his participation in the Herzegovinian uprising of 1875.

                Page 21: "... 280 people of different nationalities: Montenegrins, Croats, Bosniaks, Germans, Serbs, MACEDONIANS and 15-16 Bulgarians ..."

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                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332

                  1913 London Daily Telegraph, UK, story in an Australian newspaper

                  Rival Claims in Macedonia.

                  "The Macedonian Slavs, strictly speaking, are neither Servians nor Bulgarians. Ethnically, and by their language they stand midway between them, being, however, by their dialect, their traditions, customs and folklore, nearer to the Servian than to the Bulgarians."

                  Undoubtedly, and unfortunately, the divergence of opinion between Servia and Bulgaria concerning the partition of Macedonia is great and grave enough. But ...


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                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    Two Macedonians ... who became Bulgarians:
                    Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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                    • Carlin
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 3332

                      "A century previously, the very concept of ‘Bulgarian’ was practically unheard of...In the 19th century, then, this amorphous group was constituted into a Bulgarian nation."

                      -Becoming Bulgarian: the articulation of Bulgarian identity in the 19th century - Sampimon, J.

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                      • Carlin
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 3332

                        THE BULGARIAN HORRORS: CULTURE AND THE INTERNATIONAL HISTORY OF THE GREAT EASTERN CRISIS, 1876-1878 by Cameron Ean Alfred Whitehead

                        THE UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Vancouver)
                        April 2014

                        Bulgarian identity still hadn't established itself fully even by the 1870s. Rumelian Christians didn't identify as Bulgar & opposed the Bulgar April Uprising against the Turks.




                        PS, URL:
                        Словенечкиот Меѓународен институт за блискоисточни и балкански истражувања (ИФИМЕС) без дипломатски речник за Бугарија и Бугарите во својата најнова анализа насловена „Избори 2021 во Бугарија: Бугарски ‘напад’ врз Северна Македонија“ и објавена денеска. „Блокирајќи го интегративниот процес на Северна Македонија, Бугарија го блокира интегративниот процес на сите земји од Западен Балкан во ЕУ. конкретен повод […]

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                        • Liberator of Makedonija
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2014
                          • 1597

                          Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                          THE BULGARIAN HORRORS: CULTURE AND THE INTERNATIONAL HISTORY OF THE GREAT EASTERN CRISIS, 1876-1878 by Cameron Ean Alfred Whitehead

                          THE UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Vancouver)
                          April 2014

                          Bulgarian identity still hadn't established itself fully even by the 1870s. Rumelian Christians didn't identify as Bulgar & opposed the Bulgar April Uprising against the Turks.




                          PS, URL:
                          https://www.expres.mk/ifimes-bugarij...donci-i-turci/
                          I read an essay by a Bulgarian academic few years back that also claimed the general population in what became Bulgaria opposed the April Uprising as well, or were at least indifferent to it. The essay was in a compilation book, it may have been On the Macedonians' Matters
                          I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

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                          • Momce Makedonce
                            Member
                            • Jul 2012
                            • 562

                            Found this video on Youtube quite interesting, a native Bulgarian speaker trying to understand various Macedonian phrases. She doesn't do too well, even though the Bulgarians claim both languages to be identical!

                            Admittedly not sure where this girl is from in Bulgaria, as that could obviously make a difference with how similar her dialect is to Macedonian.

                            I haven't ever come across any Bulgarians so have never been put in a situation where I have to try and understand them, from the little I have been exposed to it can understand bits and pieces. Definitely not the same though and I think it would be difficult to hold a conversation and properly interact.

                            Have a watch of the video here.
                            We've done the Bulgarian and Russian language, now lets give Bulgarian and Macedonian a try! How similar are the two. Lets find out!
                            "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task." Goce Delcev

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                            • Spirit
                              Member
                              • May 2015
                              • 154

                              Originally posted by Momce Makedonce View Post
                              Found this video on Youtube quite interesting, a native Bulgarian speaker trying to understand various Macedonian phrases. She doesn't do too well, even though the Bulgarians claim both languages to be identical!

                              Admittedly not sure where this girl is from in Bulgaria, as that could obviously make a difference with how similar her dialect is to Macedonian.

                              I haven't ever come across any Bulgarians so have never been put in a situation where I have to try and understand them, from the little I have been exposed to it can understand bits and pieces. Definitely not the same though and I think it would be difficult to hold a conversation and properly interact.

                              Have a watch of the video here.
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFpQSoZT0KA
                              When I was in Macedonia in 2012 my cousins took me to Dorjan. I went for a walk by myself and came across a takeaway shop selling roast chickens. The owner started to speak to me and I had real difficulty in understanding him, I could grasp a couple of the sentences he was saying but it was basically incomprehensible to me to the point he gave up speaking to me. When I got back to where my cousins were I told them what had transpired. They explained to me that in the far eastern parts of Macedonia closest to the Bulgarian border the Macedonians speak with a heavy Bulgarian inflection.
                              Likewise with Serbian, I can get some of the meaning but it has to be spoken really slowly to me for me to get the gist of it.

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13675

                                Originally posted by Spirit View Post
                                They explained to me that in the far eastern parts of Macedonia closest to the Bulgarian border the Macedonians speak with a heavy Bulgarian inflection.
                                I wouldn't refer to it as a "Bulgarian" inflection. Some features common to both eastern Macedonia and Bulgaria exist because of the dialect continuum in the Balkans. The Macedonian literary language is based on the western dialects so it can take a little effort to adjust when communicating with speakers of eastern dialects. This isn't unusual, for example, the native dialect of Zagreb bears more affinity with Slovenian than it does with standard Croatian.
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

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