Exposing Bulgarian Myths and Lies

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  • Stevce
    Member
    • Jan 2016
    • 200

    Wow never heard of Roman before this. Is this common knowledge and how do the Bulgarians counter this?

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    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332



      Comment

      • Carlin
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 3332

        Keep in mind that Gudilas were Hellenized Bulgarians.






        Last edited by Carlin; 04-30-2020, 06:20 PM.

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        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          URL:


          Полковникот Маринов

          Речиси шеесет години подоцна, деновиве, написот од архивата на германскиот неделник „Шпигел“ од 26 мај 1969-та ме врати ненадејно во детството. Во извештајот „Бугарија. Воени злосторства. Затворена врата“ редакцијата на „Шпигел“ ја опишува историјата на еден бугарски граѓанин од времето на Втората светска војна. Полковникот во бугарската царска армија, Иван Маринов.

          „Пролетта 1941-та, кога Германците ја поделија Југославија и на сојузничките Бугари им ја доделија цела Македонија, дел од Србија, како и едно парче од со Албанци населеното Косово поле, Маринов маршираше на челото на 15-тата бугарска дивизија која влезе во соседната земја за да оствари еден стар сон на Бугарија: да се востанови тоа бугарско царство, кое во десеттиот век се простираше од Дунав до планината Пинд во Грција и од границите на Албанија сѐ до Црното море, за подоцна тоа царство да биде уништено од Византија”, стои во извештајот на “Шпигел”. Во долгиот список на воени злосторства, за кои државата Југославија го товарела полковникот Маринов, тој е заведен под бројот 411/45. Извештајот е објавен во “Шпигел” 1969-та како вест за едно барање на југословенски делегати на 9-тиот конгрес на КПЈ упатено до владата во Белград, таа конечно да побара од бугарската влада да го испорача на Југославија воениот злосторник Иван Маринов. Познатиот македонски генерал Михајло Апостолски лично ја однел дебелата папка со документи од Скопје во Белград. Нему, на македонскиот партизан во Втората светска војна, му било познато името на бугарскиот полковник Маринов. Меѓу многуте злосторства за кои се товари Маринов, во извештајот на “Шпигел” се спомнува и убиството на момчињата во Ваташа. Југословенските власти брзо сфатиле дека воениот злосторник со број 411/45 нема никогаш да одговара за злоделата.

          Онака, како што тој 1941-та гордо марширал во Македонија под закрилата на национал-социјалистичката германска армија, тој брзо нашол закрила и во советската армија. Во последниот миг, пред да стигнат руските трупи, Маринов лукаво ја сменил страната. Есента 1944-тата, тој за дочекот на руската армија во Софија наредил да му сошијат "црвена постава во неговата царска генералска униформа”. Исто како што три години пред тоа "се колнеше во Хитлер и во германската SS", пишува “Шпигел”. Полковникот Маринов во социјалистичка Бугарија бил на многу високи функции. Останал верен на Москва, а староста ја поминал, со висока пензија, во големата вила на Витоша. “Шпигел” известува дека таму еднаш го посетил некој Веле Лезановски, “поранешен југословенски партизан, кој со македонскиот народен хор „Стив Наумов” - именуван по името на еден партизан, загинат во војната – допатувал на концерт во Софија”. Тој го побарал Маринов во вилата. Сакал тој да му открие каде се наоѓа обезглавеното мртво тело на народниот херој Стив Наумов. „Бугарските окупатори, на времето, на сестрата на жртвата и‘ ја беа покажале само главата на Наумов, за да го идентификува. Маринов му ја затвори вратата пред нос на посетителот,” заклучува “Шпигел”. Оваа неочекувана констелација ме врати веднаш во детството, во училиштето, пред бистата на Стив Наумов. Таа, на која беше само главата и дел од градите. Без остатокот од телото. Не знаев тогаш колку мојата детска интуиција била блиска до вистината. Потоа прочитав во други извештаи дека бугарските војници од мртвото тело ја отсекле главата на Стив Наумов. За да ѝ ја покажат на сестра му. Никој никогаш не дознал каде го погребале обезглавеното тело. Полковникот, кој бил одговорен за ликвидацијата на младиот македонски комунист, верувал дека може да живее понатаму без историско и лично паметење.

          Comment

          • Carlin
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2011
            • 3332

            Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
            The 'Second Bulgarian Empire.' Its Origin and History to 1204
            R. Wolff


            1) When, after more than a century, the fourth uprising did take place in 1186, it was under the auspices of two local chieftains, Peter and Asen, whom all the sources, Byzantine and western, agree in calling Vlachs, and who lived in the Balkan mountains. The most elaborate theories have been resorted to by Bulgarian historians to prove that the word 'Vlach' had by 1185 come to mean a 'Bulgar from the northwest part of the country.' They explain this phenomenon as the result of a conspiracy of silence on the part of Byzantine writers, who, they argue, were trying to avoid the use of the word 'Bulgar' and to substitute 'Vlach.' In fact, however, it can be demonstrated that Byzantine writers use the word 'Bulgar' quite freely when they are talking about Bulgars, and use 'Vlach' only to refer to Vlachs. It has long been realized that any other interpretation involves the twisting of the sources until they bear no relationship to the ascertainable facts about the origin and development of the ‘second Bulgarian Empire.’

            2) Not long thereafter, one of Asen's captives, a priest, who spoke the Vlach language, begged for his freedom, and was refused, Asen saying with a grim pun (a pun, it is true, only in Greek, and we are told that they were speaking Vlach) that he intended not to let him go but to kill him. The priest, weeping, told Asen that God would show no future mercy to a man who had refused to heed the request of a poor suppliant. And indeed Asen was shortly thereafter killed by Ivanko, a Vlach, who was having an affair with Asen's wife's sister. Angered at the scandal, Asen had begun by threatening his wife, but soon turned his anger against Ivanko, whom he sent for late at night, refusing to postpone the interview. Taking council with his friends, Ivanko concealed a sword under his cloak for use only if Asen drew first. Asen reached for his sword immediately, and Ivanko struck. It was said that the captive sebastocrator Isaac had been at the root of the plot, and that he had promised Ivanko his own daughter in marriage. But even before the killing of Asen, Isaac had died in his chains. Ivanko's friends agreed that he would make a better ruler than the tyrannical Asen; and, seizing Tirnovo, Ivanko prepared to hold out against Asen's brothers Peter and Ioannitsa. ... He requested Byzantine aid, offering to hand over Tirnovo, Vlach capital and the key to their Balkan defenses.

            3) It was at this juncture, in 1198 or 1199, that local Vlach chieftains other than the family of the Asen brothers began to set up independent principalities. Chrysos (Dobromir Chrysos), a Vlach, had at first not joined in the original insurrection of Peter and Asen, but had helped the Byzantines against them with a force of 500 men. Later he was captured, and drawn over to the side of his own people, disappointing Alexius by setting himself up as local ruler at Strumnitsa. The Emperor undertook one fruitless expedition against him, and some time later set out on a second, Chrysos having by this time taken possession of the virtually impregnable fortress of Prosakon (Prosek) on a cliff jutting out into the Vardar, and almost surrounded by water. Here Alexius foolishly undertook siege operations, which, however, nearly succeeded. Had it not been for a shortage of battering rams, Prosakon might have fallen, and much later trouble saved.

            Comment

            • Carlin
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 3332

              Read full article here - I only selected (and translated) one point so far:


              In an alleged patriotic advice to the Macedonians published in the "Constantinople Gazette", November 1862 - it states as follows:

              "Please brother MACEDONIANS!

              It seems to me that you look at your brothers with proud contempt: Bulgarians and Thracians, when you do not approve of their textbooks, and you rush with great speed towards Serbianism. "
              Last edited by Carlin; 05-06-2020, 02:24 PM.

              Comment

              • Liberator of Makedonija
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2014
                • 1597

                Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                Read full article here - I only selected (and translated) one point so far:


                In an alleged patriotic advice to the Macedonians published in the "Constantinople Gazette", November 1862 - it states as follows:

                "Please brother MACEDONIANS!

                It seems to me that you look at your brothers with proud contempt: Bulgarians and Thracians, when you do not approve of their textbooks, and you rush with great speed towards Serbianism. "
                The conflict over language is one the Bulgarians cannot deny, even way back then.
                I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                Comment

                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332

                  Georgi Dinkov was a local Macedonian born in Solun in 1839. He studied at a Greek school in his hometown and then at a theological school on the island of Halki, the best school of the Constantinople Patriarchate.

                  In 1874 or 1875 he decided to move to Athens. Georgi Dinkov died in Athens in 1876, after failing to recover from the beating Greeks inflicted on him. In the same year his son Dimitrios Dinkas was born, an ethnic Hellene. Later, ironically, his son became a prominent Greek politician, a member of the Ottoman and Greek parliaments, who opened and maintained a Greek school in Zagorichani.

                  There is only one wikipedia entry on him, and it's in Bulgarian:


                  He appears to have identified as an ethnic Bulgarian based on the writings provided in the Bulgarian wikipedia page. He also wrote the following, about the Antiquity of native Macedonians. This can be found in one of his letters to Stepan Verkovich:

                  "The Grecoman opinion about the origin of the native Bulgarians should not look odd to you, when we have before our eyes German historians who, blinded by Philhellenism, could not see in the ancient Roman and Greek writers the pure Bulgarian origin of the Macedonian and Dragian* population since the 9th century BC.

                  I do not have the selfishness to fight unequally with such famous historians, but when I look at all the writings in the magazines that have thwarted all their works to prove the Macedonians as Hellenes, we can rightly tell them that as they themselves testify that the Macedonians were not Hellenes, they could not be anything other than what they are today..."


                  Found on Bulgarian website:


                  PS: * I am not sure what the term "Dragian" population means. Could it be a 'corruption' of "Thracian"?
                  Last edited by Carlin; 05-07-2020, 09:10 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15660

                    Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                    PS: * I am not sure what the term "Dragian" population means. Could it be a 'corruption' of "Thracian"?
                    I would bet money on it.
                    And I wonder if the Thracians indeed called themselves that with obvious clear cognitive relationship with "dragi" in Macedonian (and other languages).
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Carlin
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 3332

                      In 1811, the English traveler John Galt visited Sofia and wrote: "Sofia is a small, unclean city, surrounded by low cliffs... Most of the houses are poor huts, and the mud on the streets is so deep that it made them impassable even for pedestrians. Sofia's population is estimated at 10,000, mostly Greeks, who want to join Serbs against the Turks."

                      Another traveler, Adam Neal, visited several Bulgarian cities in 1805 and wrote, for example: "Razgrad is a very important city.… The current population is about 10,000, one-third of whom are Greek Christians and the rest Jews and Turks."

                      Tragedy! Ethnic Hellenes everywhere in Bulgaria in the early 1800's!

                      Comment

                      • Carlin
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 3332

                        THE ETHNOGENETICAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE MACEDONIANS AND THE BULGARIANS (with English subtitles)
                        The documentary that is destroying the anti-Macedonian Bulgarian propaganda! Find out why the Macedonians never had Bulgarian roots! Find out who the real Bu...





                        Last edited by Carlin; 05-27-2020, 11:22 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Liberator of Makedonija
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2014
                          • 1597

                          Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                          THE ETHNOGENETICAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE MACEDONIANS AND THE BULGARIANS (with English subtitles)
                          The documentary that is destroying the anti-Macedonian Bulgarian propaganda! Find out why the Macedonians never had Bulgarian roots! Find out who the real Bu...





                          All this does is raise the question on how these travellers defined 'Serb'
                          I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                          Comment

                          • Liberator of Makedonija
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 1597

                            According to Bulgarian professors, Nikola Ovcharov and Plamen Pavlov, all people north of the danube in 13th and 14th centuries were "Bulgarians" - a new push from the Bulgarian intellegentsia to lay claim to historical Romanian and Moldavian figures.
                            I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                            Comment

                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              In 1890 the Austrian (of Czech origin) Karl Hron authored a study on Macedonians in which he affrimed their distinct ethnic character: Das Volksthum der Slaven Makedoniens (Народноста на македонските Словени). In Serbia, Hron's book has been widely criticized since its publication, while in Bulgaria its "silence" seems to continue today.

                              URLs:




                              Here are a couple of quotes (in Macedonian):

                              - "По моите сопствени студии на српско-бугарскиот спор дојдов до убедување дека Македонците, како по својата историја така и по својот јазик, се посебна народност. Значи, ниту се Срби, уште помалку Бугари, туку се потомци на оние словенски прадоселеници кои го населувале Балканскиот Полуостров веќе долго пред српската и бугарската инвазија и кои подоцна со ниту една од овие две нации не се измешале"

                              - "... македонскиот јазик според своите сопствени закони за развитокот на гласовите, како и според неговите граматички правила формира еден сопствен јазик..."

                              - "Колку повеќе ја гледам целината на досегашните заклучоци станувам се поцврсто уверен дека посебната националност на Македонците ќе биде со напредувањето во испитувањата се појасна и подокажлива"


                              Last edited by Carlin; 06-14-2020, 08:00 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Carlin
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 3332

                                URL:




                                1) No TITO involved!

                                1939 - Australian magazine report: Bulgaria has 11 different nationalities, including Macedonians.

                                Pix Magazine., v.4, no.20, 1939-11-11 (ISSN: 0032-0390)

                                URL:




                                2) Бугарската нација се создавала со поткупување aгитaтoри!?

                                Како Македонци станувале “бугарски” национални дејци – „Ќе ми даваш пари, ќе станам бугарин“… (“Од спомените” на бугарскиот преродбеник Петар Берковски од град Лом, 1894)

                                URL:


                                3) A group of Prilep residents in July of 1887 petitioned the Ottoman sultan Abdul Hamid II (1842-1918) to allow them to open a Macedonian public school in Prilep, since they are not Bulgarians and don't recognise the Bulgarian church schools.

                                They expressed their wish to be protected by the authority of the Roman Pope, but to be allowed to practice Eastern Orthodoxy.



                                4) The late Bulgarian philologist Dina Stanisheva during the late 1970's lost her job at the Institute for Bulgarian language just because she held the scientific belief that the Macedonian language is separate & distinct from Bulgarian.




                                Last edited by Carlin; 06-29-2020, 11:20 PM.

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