The book that should not exist, Macedonian-Greek lexicon from 1907!

[Amphipolis]

The book is in Greek, lists of words are also in Greek letters, you can find the link to download the book and some words and description in English at my post#27 in this thread.

[Starling]

It's all I could find. Pictures that fail to display due to the photobucket renewal message probably show up smaller than they did originally. The resized version is too blurry and I can't seem to get it here, so I'd probably have to screenshot it, making it even worse. If the person running this blog is still active, then your best bet would be contacting him.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Text on the pages too small to read

[Starling]

Cover:


Page 1:


Page 5:


Page 338:


The small text on the cover seems to be a book dedication. I couldn't find better quality versions.

[Daskalot]

You can download the book here:

http://anemi.lib.uoc.gr/metadata/1/6/f/metadata-292-0000004.tkl

At the bottom of the page you press download book and you type the number you'll see in the picture. I took a quick look, there's an extended vocabulary where he tries to relate what he calls Slav-like Macedonian words with Greek words (ancient or modern). Unfortunately, this is in Greek (published in 1907) and Macedonian words are also in Greek script.

This is 200 pages, of which 175 is the vocabulary.

A superficial opinion; this doesn't seem very good, but it's a start and a reference point. I can't see Homeric references. Usually, there's a Greek word or name and a similar Macedonian one, but the rate of similarity and the real origin of the words is not scrutinised. For instance, the word may be... Italian. Sometimes, the two words (of which the meaning is often explained) do not even seem similar enough.

I would like to write a few examples (probably the first 5-10 pairs in letter A) but I don't understand the (very) first ones! (Now, that is a bad start). I'll give you the first ones in letter T:

Tabla-Tabla (table)
Taxis-Tax (class?)
Tarasso-Tresam (to shake)
Tazo-Taxam (to promise)
Tekea-Decham (children)
Tekos-Dette (child)
Teino-Tegnam (to stress)
Tekmairomai-Teknam (conjecture)
Teiro-Terram (to persecute)
Ekteiro-Isterram (to persecute)
....

They are transliterated (by me) from Greek to Latin script.

….

The important part is the fact that he clearly calls our language Macedonian. Macedonian in his view is a Slavic like language.
Then he tries to connect the Macedonian language to Greek.

Thank you for posting the link.

[George S.]

tracing the script of theancient Macedonian language

http://youtu.be/FxJmmMenC-k

[George S.]

THe Macedonians are not slavs and the grereks use it as a derogatory statement.Slav ,slavophone all terms to discredit Macedonians of thei r real glorious heritage,What do I think of greeks they are just frauds you only look at where they all come from;You have a very dishonourable past that's why alexander didn't trust you.Look at what you are doing to Macedonia you have a problem with the name.We don't have a problem.Our name IS our name we are not slavs ,we are not Bulgarians WE ARE THE REAL THING UNLIKE YOUR FAKE GREEK MACEDONIAN.YOu got no right to stand up and call yourselves Macedonians.SO stop pretending you are Macedonians.Remember how you reffered to Macedonians who were the original settlers .ENDOPI.to distinguish from the recent settlers.

[Sweet Sixteen]

WE ARE TALKING OF PROTO SLAVIC WORDS.THESE ARE NOT GREEK WORDS these are prior to the greeks.
THese proto Slavic words were in the pelasgian language,illyrian ,Macedonian,

We’re talking a lot about Proto-Slavic words but we’re not seeing them.

Also the greeks go on as if they were immune from Slavic influences you go on that its a VERY BAD thing & you think ITs altered the people .THe greeks were subject to the same influences yet they have retained their identity. THE MACEDONIANS HAVE HAD CELTS<ROMANS LAVS etc go through them with slight linguistic effects.YOU are UTTERLY wrong when you say we are just slavs.YOU ARE SLAVS TOO BY THE SAME LOGIC. IT is written that the same slavs WENT through HELLAS.

Being linguistically Slavic is not a slight influence. It makes it impossible to find out if your people were fully Slavicised or were simply the… Slavs. It’s not the same with Greeks.

SO you are hypocritical when you put labels on things. AS I have said prior to 1913 Macedonia was in its entirety as a country your govt along with 3 others decided to just take the Macedonian lands but they forgot that there were MACEDONIAN people of which they label falsly as SLAVS. Its all to justify to keep and a pretext to keep Macedonian lands.

Actually, the Greek propaganda was naming your people as Macedonians. Your language was impossible to be neglected by anyone who wrote about your people and debated on their nature and identity.

If greeks & Macedonians were the same people .Why did the romans create TWO distinct PROVINCES.ALso why did Greece wage wars together joining the romans against the Macedonians Why did Greece wage ANTI MACEDONIAN wars against Macedonia if THEY were THE SAME>??

The Romans created more than two provinces. Which anti-Macedonian wars are you referring to?

[George S.]

a VERY IMPORTANT POINT.The ethnogenesis of the so-called “ancient Greeks” is based on the composition of the participants in the Trojan War such as the Dannans, Achaeans, Argaeds etc., who were mentioned by Homer in his “Iliad” were presumed by modern Hellenists to be all “Greek people” or

“Hellenic people”, but they were wrong - because according to history, the

“Hellenes” did not colonize the Peloponnesus until 80 years after the

Trojan War.

[George S.]

AM I confusing the siyuation I think you are when you see the reality you are taking your biased govts attitude to all this it actually coincides with that.
your answers are too simplistric why you say that the slavs arrived in the 6 or seven centuries.WE ARE TALKING OF PROTO SLAVIC WORDS.THESE ARE NOT GREEK WORDS these are prior to the greeks.
THese proto Slavic words were in the pelasgian language,illyrian ,Macedonian, There is a clear distinction you are good at denying the existence.Also the greeks go on as if they were immune from Slavic influences you go on that its a VERY BAD thing & you think ITs altered the people .THe greeks were subject to the same influences yet they have retained their identity.THE MACEDONIANS HAVE HAD CELTS<ROMANS LAVS etc go through them with slight linguistic effects.YOU are UTTERLY wrong when you say we are just slavs.YOU ARE SLAVS TOO BY THE SAME LOGIC.
IT is written that the same slavs WENT through HELLAS.
SO you are hypocritical when you put labels on things.AS I have said prior to 1913 Macedonia was in its entirety as a country your govt along with 3 others decided to just take the Macedonian lands but they forgot that there were MACEDONIAN people of which they label falsly as SLAVS.Its all to justify to keep and a pretext to keep Macedonian lands.
WE do know the real reason you want to keep OUR lands of which your govt occupied illegally.SO to justify everything your govt in 1913 merely took what was not theirs .STOLE is the word.TO justify what it took they said that there are no Macedonians in the Aegean area.The Macedonians were greeks ,triedto twist history aroundby rewriting it with a greek slant PROPAGANDA stuff here.
SO in effect because WE know the REAL TRUTH you have no justification to hold on to the Macedonian lands.JUst as you are a manufactured people after 1832.For the first time a consolidated COUNTRY.CAlled GREECE.YOU can't decide who you are today you think you are Macedonian.If greeks & Macedonians were the same people .Why did the romans create TWO distinct PROVINCES.ALso why did Greece wage wars together joining the romans against the Macedonians Why did Greece wage ANTI MACEDONIAN wars against Macedonia if THEY were THE SAME>??
There is a clear distinction that ALL is not greek,WE can see the fallacy in your arguments as you argue for your govts Policies.NO use to aergue with us as we go to the heart of the issue.Just picture your logic if anyone speaks greek they MUST be greek.Picture the LOGIC your govt has made sure to muddy the waters about the truth about Macedonia.But they forgot to destroy everything as we have real glimpses that shows a clear distinction of what is Macedonian & what is greek.SO stop lying to yourselves that we are NOT Macedonians & your not Macedonian you are GREEK.
DID I say glimpses because we know today that the Macedonians had their OWN language of which you DENY as well as their existence.YOu called it barbaric Your greeks couldn't understand Macedonian as it was a babble to them Once again clear differences have emerged ,the truth is out you cant JUST assume greek & Macedonian TO BE THE SAME.NO you are the one who is confused here as its all GREEK to you.
a VERY IMPORTANT POINT.While the ethnogenesis of the so-called “ancient Greeks” is based on the composition of the participants in the Trojan War such as the Dannans, Achaeans, Argaeds etc., who were mentioned by Homer in his “Iliad” were presumed by modern Hellenists to be all “Greek people” or

“Hellenic people”, but they were wrong - because according to history, the

“Hellenes” did not colonize the Peloponnesus until 80 years after the

Trojan War.
__________________

[Sweet Sixteen]

Why are the greeks so hell bent on saying there are NO Slavic WORDS full stop.We need to look at the original texts in the PELASGIAN NOT greek texts .There was a time when evidence was deliberately destroyed so that it ALL agrees with their ideology.Nothing new about greek propaganda or Bulgarian etc

Slavs arrived at the area more than a millennium later; finding Slavic elements in Homer seems (from the starting point) problematic, so I’m curiously waiting. If a Greek word is used in Slavic languages it may be the other way around (taken from Greeks), it may be a sign of a distant (unknown) common past, it may even be a coincidence. Words as domos (house), odos (way) etc. have more than a 1000 years of continuous documented use in Greek literature before appearing in the Slavonic one (if they do).

What you see in the internet are the Homeric texts as (officially) written down in the 500s BC. Pelasgians are not related to Homer or any literature.

That leads us to the paradox that if you want to seriously support and advance your propaganda (whatever it is) you will have to study Greek, i.e. you will have to do the thing you jubilantly claimed you managed to avoid.

On one side you got falsified texts on the other you got texts that prove the Macedonian existence as distinct from greek,Arrian,plutarch etc.These are texts that haven't been tampered.

Which ancient texts are tampered or falsified?

How about the literary crusade of the 200 million dollars to bribe greek journalists to write
Macedonia is greek.THat offer was open to Macedonian journalists money for comment that Macedonia is greek.The other thing is that texts have been revised & rewritten in schools.There has been a greater emphasis on the Macedonia is greek.Why because the greek govt has upped the ante.It's all to counteract is the fact the Rom govt. has tried to seek independeence.Can one imagine another govt interfering in the affairs of another,vetoing for the sake to stop all recognition of rom.THe so called red line was Greece's concession to Macedonia.Fyrom was a another so called concession what is Greece is hiding from.?
Look at the way it behaves towards Macedonia calling people Bulgarians slavophones etc when they themselves are nothing but roms,albanians,vlachs etc except greeks of who it says is pure.Yes its got a lot to hide.The same thing can be said of Macedonian history that they try & appropriate it now they are calling themselves Macedonians.Confusing yes??How confusing is it when it says there are NO MACEDONIANS in the Aegean area.

YOU are confusing. Not the situation.

[George S.]

Why are the greeks so hell bent on saying there are NO Slavic WORDS full stop.We need to look at the original texts in the PELASGIAN NOT greek texts .There was a time when evidence was deliberately destroyed so that it ALL agrees with their ideology.Nothing new about greek propaganda or Bulgarian etc
Why are the greeks so hell bent on saying there are NO Slavic WORDS full stop.We need to look at the original texts in the PELASGIAN NOT greek texts .There was a time when evidence was deliberately destroyed so that it ALL agrees with their ideology.Nothing new about greek propaganda or Bulgarian etc
On one side you got falsified texts on the other you got texts that prove the Macedonian existence as distinct from greek,Arrian,plutarch etc.These are texts that haven't been tampered.How about the literary crusade of the 200 million dollars to bribe greek journalists to write
Macedonia is greek.THat offer was open to Macedonian journalists money for comment that Macedonia is greek.The other thing is that texts have been revised & rewritten in schools.There has been a greater emphasis on the Macedonia is greek.Why because the greek govt has upped the ante.It's all to counteract is the fact the Rom govt. has tried to seek independeence.Can one imagine another govt interfering in the affairs of another,vetoing for the sake to stop all recognition of rom.THe so called red line was Greece's concession to Macedonia.Fyrom was a another so called concession what is Greece is hiding from.?
Look at the way it behaves towards Macedonia calling people Bulgarians slavophones etc when they themselves are nothing but roms,albanians,vlachs etc except greeks of who it says is pure.Yes its got a lot to hide.The same thing can be said of Macedonian history that they try & appropriate it now they are calling themselves Macedonians.Confusing yes??How confusing is it when it says there are NO MACEDONIANS in the Aegean area.

[Sweet Sixteen]

Homer wasNOT a GREEK that you claim ,.He was born in asia mynor.

Homer's birthplace (or deathplace) are unknown, but Asia Minor (Ionia) was Greek too.

At one point your so called greek writers were saying the Trojans were similar to the greeks that is a lie.

Ancient Greek authors respect Trojans, but don't consider them Greeks. This may be because there were no Trojans at their time.

What makes you an authority on what is greek & what isn't.

I guess the fact that I can read and understand Greek makes me an authority. I would never argue that a Swedish text is actually Danish.

[George S.]

homers poetry is about mycenians that you have so easily adopted as greeks.It is about people who were on the greek?peninsular prior to the greeks.Your claims are bs .You weren't around.Homer wasNOT a GREEK that you claim ,.He was born in asia mynor.The words ili are the name of the Macedonian sun god Not Greek.Odyssey is a Macedonian word Not greek.How you can just gloss & deny things is beyond me .Its all propaganda to you.
You mention the paeonians not fighting on the greek side but on the Trojans side.Whats that got to do with the price of fish.WE are talking greeks not Macedonians.Obviously you got the two mixed up.At one point your so called greek writers were saying the Trojans were similar to the greeks that is a lie.You said that homer was around 800 bc but that's when you got your alphabet how can you be called a newcomer to the area & still claim prior history such as "being around"" constitute.The so called GREEK classical era is not cracked out to be ANYTHING but greek.What makes you an authority on what is greek & what isn't.YOu just take(steal) in ancient times and call it your own.Funny that you did it in 1913 to Macedonia.Funny that.A lot of the words DO form our Macedonian words that you call slav are our words & there is nothing you can say or do to change that .You can't accept that.You are just deniars.SLAV is used mainly as a derogatory words.One finally realizes that our language originally comes from the ancient Macedonian.So don't use the slav terminology here its from your greek buddies.

[Sweet Sixteen]

ss first of all you have gl;ossed over a lot of things homer writing in greek of his time.THe greeks weren't around the time homer is writing.

According to Herodotus, Homer lived and composed his work around 850 BC. Modern scholars tend to put him earlier and earlier, in 700s or even 650BC. Either way, Greeks (including Homer) were certainly there.

Its about mycenians and not greeks.

Mycenians were Greeks too, but it’s not solely about Mycenians. Homer uses various epithets for Greeks, he mostly calls them Achaeans, but also Argives, Danaans and rarely (actually once) Hellenes and pan-Hellenes. All these names are used alternately for the Greek side that campaigned against Troy.

The greeks hadn't arrived yet so how can he write in greek.

They had “arrived” far earlier.

You call pelazgian language classic greek.

Pelasgians are irrelevant to the discussion. I referred to Greek language of the classic era meaning the attic dialect of Plato, Aristotle, Euripides etc. That is what most foreigners (and modern Greeks) study and learn and mean when they refer to “ancient Greek”. Yet, not everything Greek is Attic. For instance, Sappho’s poetry is not in Attic.

THere are a lot of words in the illiad (illi in Macedonian) is the sun god. Not in greek.

Iliad (Ilias in Greek) comes from Ilion (an alternate name for Troy) which in turn comes from King Ilus, the founder of Troy. Ilus is not related to Helios (the Sun). It was written with a digamma (FI), pronounced Wilus.

Rubbish the greeks arrived in the greek peninsular centuries later where they adopted the phonecian alphabet. The Macedonians were already in Macedonia much much earlier than the greeks. What a joke you aren't really indigenous to the greek? peninsular. You call it typical greek How can it be when the greek language wasn't around!

The Greek alphabet is different from the Phoenician that was only a consonantal alphabet. It was adopted around 800s BC. Previously to that, it was the era of (what is now called) Linear B.

The fact is we do understand Homeric writings as the words are similar to today's Macedonian Proof that greeks weren't around that time & also the diversity of people.

Actually, I have understood that you understand shit!

You say you have 4000 Years of GREEK HISTORY in a book you only have been around for 3000 years that is a big lie.

The origin of Greek history is of course unclear. Linear A is not deciphered yet, but Linear B is considered Greek and connects distant kingdoms of Crete and Mycenae to one entity. This is around 1600-1200 BC. Linear A starts around 1800 BC. So, it’s safe to say we have a Greek historical period of around 3500-3800 years.

Macedonians existed prior to your greeks and homer wrote about a time Prior to greeks coming to Greece.IF you can't accept that then you got a problem that the greeks didn't even exist then.

Homer does not refer to Macedonians, which is probably an indication they were not called Macedonians at the time. On the contrary he refers to Paeonians in the area we today understand as Macedonia.

Also remember the war with troy the Macedonians WERE EXCLUDED from participating because THEY were not greek centuries later.Why weren't Macedonians included because greek & Macedonians were NOT the SAME.

The Paeonians (according to Homer) were indeed fighting on the side of Trojans.

But today you go on as if its all greek to you. Check the words in the illiad you will find hundreds or even thousands of words that are strictly Macedonian. That is proof that our language has retained quite a large amount of words with their roots in Macedonian not GREEK. IF you search you will see How much actrual greek words there are. Makes a mockery of your claims that is all greek.

Actually all the words are Greek. Their origins (if possible) can be discussed. I don’t have to check anything. It is you who has to do the checking and point out one or two of these “hundreds or even thousands of words that are strictly Macedonian”. We haven’t seen even one yet.

A good many people are awakening to the lies & deceit you are peddling,for a time even your learnered people did it but now they come to a realization that its not laa greek & its cracked up to be.Before the greeks there were different people on the greek peninsular I say GREEK with reservation as the people were totally different to the greeks.You call that classical greek of course you call it even when you wasn't around then.

Maybe, you don’t understand what Greek is, or you have a personal definition about Greek people or language. You will have to share it with the rest of the world, as Homer’s work is universally considered a prominent part of Greek poetry.


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