1916 Grk Magazine article upset that soldiers in grk army speak Albanian

[Pelister]

We can see the hints of your standard Greek indoctrination here.

Whats religion got to do with ethnicity? People doesn't become something else just because they changed their religion. For example, protestant or Catholic Greeks, they aren't Greek anymore since they are not orthodox? What about atheist, deist or even pagan Greeks who worship pagan gods? They aren't Greek anymore either?

Then tell me who is Greek in your book? Orthodox Turkish christians, Albanians, Vlachs, Gagauz are Greek to you just because they are orthodox??? Whats your criteria?

Onur, you noticed something about Voltron that caught my attention. The New Greeks are very clever at writing 'Greeks' into places where in fact they don't exist. The way they do it is as you have pointed out. They categorize the term 'Greek' as loosely as possible to net as many as possible. I've noticed that the term 'Greek' takes on up to three different meanings in the one paper. It is precisely how they hide the ethnic identity of various people and write in 'Greeks' where none exist. This is how they spread their lies.

[Soldier of Macedon]

If you see something you disagree with please let me know. Its pretty balanced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanites

Arvanites (Greek: Αρβανίτες, Arvanitika: Arbėreshė or Αρbε̰ρεσ̈ε̰) are a population group in Greece who traditionally speak Arvanitika, a dialect of the Albanian language. They settled in Greece during the late Middle Ages and have since been the dominant population element of some regions of the Peloponnese and several across Epirus, Attica and others. Most Arvanites today self-identify as Greeks as the result of deliberate assimilation, disregard for ethnic self-identity, and a lack of care shown for ethno-linguistic minority groups by the Greek state. Hence, they no longer consider themselves to belong to Albania or the Albanian nation. They call themselves Arvanites (in Greek) and Arbėror (in their Albanian language), but even as late as the 19th century the collective reference of Shqiptar was still in use; and the communities in northern Greece still use the term Shqiptar (the same used by Albanians of Albania), a term which is now disliked by all the other Arvanites, who, unfortunately, also resent being called Albanians, despite their ethnic origins.

More balanced now, couldn't be bothered fixing the grammar, who writes these joke articles? Anyway, this here below is quite cunning:

Arvanitika is in a state of attrition due to language shift towards Greek and large-scale internal migration to the cities and subsequent intermingling of the population during the 20th century.

A state of attrition and language shift towards Greek? That almost makes it sounds like they are dialects of the same language or branches of the same linguistic family, which they aren't. They could have just said that Arvanitika has accumulated a large number of Greek loan words, and continues to do so, because the Greek government is too racist to allow a people to learn their native tongue. How about that for the truth? Or is there something which I have written that cannot be corroborated by facts?

[TrueMacedonian]

Onur, you noticed something about Voltron that caught my attention. The New Greeks are very clever at writing 'Greeks' into places where in fact they don't exist. The way they do it is as you have pointed out. They categorize the term 'Greek' as loosely as possible to net as many as possible. I've noticed that the term 'Greek' takes on up to three different meanings in the one paper. It is precisely how they hide the ethnic identity of various people and write in 'Greeks' where none exist. This is how they spread their lies.

Exactly gentlemen. Recently someone brought something to my attention of the one poster in A'm'UCK's forum who has 5 different screen names and makes believe his forum has alot users who "de-coded" the Kresna Uprising with the House of Commons papers I posted on here. Unfortunately for half-a-brain he forgets to include religious affiliations as well as the one first-hand account of a Captain, a page half-a-brain even posted mind you, that mentions the chiefs of the Macedonian insurrections. All of them, including the Macedonian Brigands whose names he reveals, from Macedonia. Half-a-brain also ignores some key points of the pages he even posts. I will post these pages tomorrow.
But that is what these half-a-brains do. They post things that say "Greek" and "Bulgarian" in them, salivate, and think they scored another goal. But they ultimately, as per usual, fail to take so many things into consideration because they are that stupid. I guess like Voltron. Making up an ethnicity out of Albanians and Vlachs as he goes along. But of course if you're Orthodox in grcija you are definitely a fullblown mega "greek"

[Daskalot]

No SOM I am not kidding. Do you know when the Arvanites settled in Greece ? That link you posted does not shock me. Its stated in the wiki link if you would like to read it. Its not a long read. If you see something you disagree with please let me know. Its pretty balanced.

Firstly the Albanians did not settle in Greece, they settled in the Morea. Greece at the time was not yet constructed.
And secondly, the link SoM gave you clearly shows what the Albanians of that time called themselves in thier own language. And these Albanians at the time where inhabiting the territory which became the first modern Greek state, ie the Morea.

[Voltron]

You're definition of Hellenic ethnicity is quite interesting. An Albanian (or whoever else, for that matter) who considered Greek a foreign tongue but happened to find himself within the borders of the newly created Greek state is a 'Hellene', yet bonafide Greek-speaking families that converted to Islam don't make the Hellenic cut. You base your definition largely on religion, which makes sense given the way the Hellenic identity has developed since its adoption by the newly created Greek state in the 19th century.

I base my definition on the definition of Ethnos. Religion is just one of the components that I had used as a reference. Islam surely does not cut the grade. Whoever converted did so out of weakness, self-interests and as far as I am concerned we did a good thing in shipping them out to Turkey. They are Turks now, you can ask them yourselves. Hellenic identity was reinforced and cemented with a Christian Byzantine outlook, as you mentioned espescially after the population exchange. Byzantine heritage is a continuation of Roman and by extension Ancient Greece.

Today certain people are trying to use todays brush to paint yesterdays picture. It is not possible, since the variables and circumstances are completely different. To base anything on racial purity, espescially in the balkans is pure comedy to say the least.

[Voltron]

Firstly the Albanians did not settle in Greece, they settled in the Morea. Greece at the time was not yet constructed.
And secondly, the link SoM gave you clearly shows what the Albanians of that time called themselves in thier own language. And these Albanians at the time where inhabiting the territory which became the first modern Greek state, ie the Morea.

Daskalot, I also provided a link that made reference to how they referred to themselves and it did not contradict the one SOM provided. Again, you can ask them yourselves. I am willing to bet that if you were to imply to an Arvanite that they are Albanian in most cases you will find yourself picking up your teeth from the ground. They are one of the most fervent patriots in our modern history. They have a Hellenic consciousness and to me that is enough. Not to mention the half of millenia they reside in Greece. You are correct, Morea was their most common place of residence.

[Voltron]

A state of attrition and language shift towards Greek? That almost makes it sounds like they are dialects of the same language or branches of the same linguistic family, which they aren't. They could have just said that Arvanitika has accumulated a large number of Greek loan words, and continues to do so, because the Greek government is too racist to allow a people to learn their native tongue. How about that for the truth? Or is there something which I have written that cannot be corroborated by facts?

SOM, I give the benefit of the doubt regarding Hellinization policies in Macedonia. I read and I learn. Regarding Arvanties, I believe you are out of your element. What you stated is wrong and I am calling you on it. You would have to prove that Arvanties were forcefully Hellenized and their language obstructed to be spoken.

[Voltron]

Voltron even though you personally admit to a few things the greek government will never admit to those things such as they owe a great debt of gratitude to the albanians & other
minorities for propping up greece all these years.It's really shocking to see all those myths busted by TM that all that is in greece is homogenous & pure when in fact it's the opposite.How can the ordinary greek citizen put up with shit & accept the BS from the government.THere should be riots in the streets etc.

They are not Albanians George. Again, they do not identify themselves as such. As you mentioned, you do not appreciate someone telling you what you are. Dont do the same to other people. Homogenous does not mean purity.

[Voltron]

Onur, you noticed something about Voltron that caught my attention. The New Greeks are very clever at writing 'Greeks' into places where in fact they don't exist. The way they do it is as you have pointed out. They categorize the term 'Greek' as loosely as possible to net as many as possible. I've noticed that the term 'Greek' takes on up to three different meanings in the one paper. It is precisely how they hide the ethnic identity of various people and write in 'Greeks' where none exist. This is how they spread their lies.

Elaborate on the three different meanings. Your reference to us as " New " in each of your posts is only making you look uneducated, ignorant, arrogant and just out of touch with reality. I suggest you lose the chip off your shoulder mate.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

Try quoting people in 1 post.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I base my definition on the definition of Ethnos. Religion is just one of the components that I had used as a reference.

You couldn't provide an adequate interpretation of 'ethnos' if your life depended on it. What else do you have aside from religion? Surely not language and heritage given the Vlachs, Albanians, Macedonians, etc that now pretend to be 'Greeks' after almost 200 years of non-recognition by the Greek state? You cannot justify your version of 'ethnos' in any credible way when you rely primarily (and in some cases solely) on religion and disregard other key factors.

Hellenic identity was reinforced and cemented with a Christian Byzantine outlook, as you mentioned espescially after the population exchange.

It's like saying fire was reinforced with water, but, whatever.

Regarding Arvanties, I believe you are out of your element. What you stated is wrong and I am calling you on it.

I am in my element, I don't have to be Greek or Albanian. And you're calling jack, this isn't a game of poker.

You would have to prove that Arvanties were forcefully Hellenized and their language obstructed to be spoken.

Well, let's see. There is no doubt that at the eve of the creation of Greece in the 19th century, Albanians constituted a significant element of the population and considered Greek a foreign tongue. Can you show me how many schools, newspapers, churches and other institutions that have been allowed to use the Albanian (Arvanite or whatever) language in Greece since then? Did not at least some of the thousands of Albanians in Greece want their children to speak their native tongue? Can you cite any examples of government assistance or support?

You seem to live in a world of your own sometimes, it's time you start dealing with the xenophobic elements of your recent history.

[Voltron]

[QUOTE]

You couldn't provide an adequate interpretation of 'ethnos' if your life depended on it. What else do you have aside from religion? Surely not language and heritage given the Vlachs, Albanians, Macedonians, etc that now pretend to be 'Greeks' after almost 200 years of non-recognition by the Greek state? You cannot justify your version of 'ethnos' in any credible way when you rely primarily (and in some cases solely) on religion and disregard other key factors.

Well, I am neither Arvanite, Vlach, or "Grkomani" but Greek so whatever mate. Its apparant you have your mind dead set on your one-sided view of Greek history. When referring to the above groups its always within the topic and context of the thread in question. If you cannot understand that they were minority groups that have assimilated to the Hellenic Ethnos then I will no longer even bother. I cant bet my life on the definition of Ethnos ? OK.

Well, let's see. There is no doubt that at the eve of the creation of Greece in the 19th century, Albanians constituted a significant element of the population and considered Greek a foreign tongue. Can you show me how many schools, newspapers, churches and other institutions that have been allowed to use the Albanian (Arvanite or whatever) language in Greece since then? Did not at least some of the thousands of Albanians in Greece want their children to speak their native tongue? Can you cite any examples of government assistance or support?

Its Arvanites for the last time and they consisted a significant element only in certain areas of Greece. Wasnt Gruevski branding Albanians as Macedonians on their passports ? Post proof of your allegations.

[Pelister]

Elaborate on the three different meanings. Your reference to us as " New " in each of your posts is only making you look uneducated, ignorant, arrogant and just out of touch with reality. I suggest you lose the chip off your shoulder mate.

I think the term 'New' as in 'New Greek' is very appropriate. I don't think its making me 'look' uneducated. My purpose here is not to look educated in any case. Rather I am here to expose your so called adopted 'heritage' for what it really is - a sham. I think there are serious problems with your identity, if we consider that contemporary 'Greeks' from the 19th century were speaking Albanian, and if we consider that the Greek national dance in front of the British queen was an Albanian one. Where were the ethnic Greeks? On another note what never ceases to amaze me is the facile triumphalism you New Greeks display over the conquest of new territories, including Macedonian territory; and while you 'Others in disguise' were slaughtering Macedonians wholesale, the brutality of the invading Greek regime against the Macedonians has only been matched by the gentle, mischievious discretion of your rotten state in everything else. One thing is essential for the generation of such lies and distortions on such a massive scale, and that is naked conquest. You acquired Macedonian territory by force, and you held it by force in violation of international law, therefore the 'claims' of the invading 'Greek' to Macedonian territory will always be legally defective.

[Onur]

The New Greeks are very clever at writing 'Greeks' into places where in fact they don't exist. The way they do it is as you have pointed out. They categorize the term 'Greek' as loosely as possible to net as many as possible. I've noticed that the term 'Greek' takes on up to three different meanings in the one paper. It is precisely how they hide the ethnic identity of various people and write in 'Greeks' where none exist. This is how they spread their lies.

Yes Pelister. I recently saw another example of this from an article. I was going to post here but created a new thread instead;

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=87843

[Stojacanec]

Elaborate on the three different meanings. Your reference to us as " New " in each of your posts is only making you look uneducated, ignorant, arrogant and just out of touch with reality. I suggest you lose the chip off your shoulder mate.

Voltron, the term "New Greece" was a common term written in documents between various government correspondence especially druing the 1920s and 1930s.

This reference made to Aegean Macedonia.

Do you agree?

Why some 80 years later that region is now being dubbed as "one and only Greek" or "Macedonia 4000 years of greek history"