Originally posted by Daskalot
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Kolokotronis the Albanian
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostWho mentioned Bulgaria in this thread? Don't thank me, I wasn't welcoming you. Too many times you have come to this forum trying to play some 'good' character while itching to disrespect our people. After you previous BS here I don't believe a word you say, so spare me your reasoning and earn your respect.
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Originally posted by Voltron View PostI dont know Daskalot, Id be lying if I told you I did. Besides, why do we even have to go there again ?Macedonian Truth Organisation
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Originally posted by Voltron View PostIm justifying the eradification of foreign elements in our land. It is not our historical heritage, it is someone elses.
I will be the first to admit that Christianity damaged many relics from antiquity however Christianity has been an accepted religion in Europe. Not brought in by force in the same manner Islam was.
Listed are only events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete)
Ancient Pagans
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As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
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Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
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Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
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Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468]
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Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]
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Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."
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In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
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In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]
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The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
[DO19-25]
Mission
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Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]
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Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]
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Battle of Belgrad 1456: 80,000 Turks slaughtered. [DO235]
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15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Victims unknown. [DO30]
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16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".
Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, 225]
Crusades (1095-1291)
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First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]
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Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands. [WW23]
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9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27]
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Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30]
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after 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed. [WW32-35]
Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents—save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]
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Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]
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Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]
(In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude")
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The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." [TG79]
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Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone. [WW41]
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Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]
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Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]
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Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone). [WW224]
http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htmFor the last time, it was Arvanites that have contributed and they hardly recognize themselves along the same ranks with TurkAlbanians.IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!
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Originally posted by vojnik View PostIs it really so hard to say 'kosovo'? Why must you keep saying kosova, I'm pretty sure we are writting in english not shiptar...
P.S: SoM, I gave my response in the post #68!Last edited by Epirot; 10-25-2011, 07:43 AM.IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!
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Originally posted by Daskalot View PostWe are on a Macedonian forum so it is quite natural to discuss matters from a Macedonian perspective, don't you agree?
Originally posted by Epirot View PostThis does mean that you justify in the same manner the ethnic cleaning of Epirus, Macedonia and Thrace. According to your nationalist ideology, they are supposed to be "foreign elements" in the land which belonged to you since the neolithic period, right!?
Negative, I do not condone in anyway elimination of human beings. That is completely unrelated and trying to link the two is silly.
You know absolutely nothing about Christianity. Here is an incomplete list of "peaceful spreading" of Christianity across Europe:
Since when, political division mean ethnic division? Why do you ignore the very fact that Muslim Albanians sided with their Orthodox brethren to fought Ottomans?
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Originally posted by EpirotThe content of video is pretty manipulated because it's intentionally biased!
A certain number of them were Albanian from the beginning.............This is sufficient to disprove the allegedly Serbian being of orthodox monasteries in Kosova.For example, it is widely known that Monastery of Deçan was previously Catholic..........The Orthodox monastery of Deçan was granted to Scanderbeg. In his time, most of Albanians were of Orthodox faith and Catholics were barely seen in Kosova.
There was not any strategy of Albanians to ruin them.
Even some members of UNESCO took an initiative to declare Orthodox heritage of Kosova, not as Serbian, but as "Kosovo's heritage"In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Voltron View PostSOM, the reason Bulgaria was mentioned is also for the simple fact we all know how they feel about Ottoman occupation. Its common knowledge.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostAnd what, the Macedonians didn't despise Ottoman occupation? Or are you being anachronistic by drawing a connection to Macedonia's currently relations with Turkey?.
Perhaps you need to go a little more contemporary and see how cosy Greeks and Turks were against Macedonians during the Ottoman period
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Originally posted by Voltron View PostI would say the latter reason and the fact that it seems to me that it is something that is accepted as part of Macedonia's history without any sense of animosity.
Kind of like Turkey and Iran are against the Kurds today isnt it ? I noticed on that thread you were a little more understanding in Turkey's plight.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostWe accept it as a part of Macedonia's history because it is a part of Macedonia's history, just like it is a part of Greece's history, irrespective of how many Ottoman relics you've destroyed. There is no animosity now because it has been almost 100 years since Ottoman rule finished in Macedonia and we don't have any current political issues with them. I suppose, in your defence, the situation may have been different if we shared borders with Turkey, but that isn't certain either..
Anyway, i guess we are diving into an issue of semantics now. So Il leave it at that.
Aside from that, I don't feel particularly strong about the issue because I don't know enough about it and have enough to concern myself with when it comes to Macedonia and the Macedonian people.
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Originally posted by Voltron View PostIts not part of Macedonia's history either, unless you consider those monuments as your own. Its a reminder of a foreign occupier in our lands.
There is no basis to have them exist today. Do you keep garbage in your house to remind you what you ate yesterday ?
And if someone on this forum tries to bring up Greek monuments in other areas in this world it is a result of influence. Not by force as it is in Turkey's case.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostEpirot, you use words that you don't even understand. There is no manipulation on the video because it is recorded live. And the only bias is the fact that it shows Albanians damaging Christian places and nobody else.
Originally posted by SoM
Strategy, random, what difference does it make? Dozens of medieval Orthodox churches and monasteries were destroyed. Again, stop defending these idiotic actions by your kinsmen and accept that what they did was wrong.
Originally posted by SoM
You're all over the place. Is it only a certain number or is it all of them? Was Decani originally Catholic or was it Orthodox? You're not making any sense. What proof do you have regarding the Decani monastery being established by Albanians, aside from the assertions of some Albanian professor?
Originally posted by SoM
What proof do you have regarding the Decani monastery being established by Albanians, aside from the assertions of some Albanian professor?
Originally posted by SoM
So? Does that mean it is Albanian?Last edited by Epirot; 10-25-2011, 11:53 AM.IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!
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Originally posted by Voltron View PostThere was never a unified Albanian ethnos back then. If the Turk-Albanians sided once with Arvanties then they squared off with each other a thousand times over. Who are you trying to kid ?Last edited by Epirot; 10-25-2011, 11:54 AM.IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!
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Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostVoltron, you can't just disregard centuries of interaction with the Turks during the Ottoman period. It is a part of your history.
Does tzatziki, baklava, coffee, etc also remind you of foreign occupation? Or is the edible sort of 'garbage' acceptable?
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